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Discussion Starter #1
I'm not up to speed on posting pics here yet, so here's a link just in case:



http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/?saved=1



This is not in response to the gun cleaning discussion as part of another thread, nor do we need to resuscitate that discussion here.



I have never shot a gun this much without cleaning it, but I had a problem at 300 rounds and I intended to confirm that 'dirty' caused the problem or it did not. IT DID NOT.



To use an over-used cliche, the pics don't do it justice, so here's some verbage to go with the pics. I made some other pics but they didn't turn out for one reason or another. First, after the single mal at 300 rds, I have now fired it 800 times without a problem of any kind.



The gun was dirty, but not like I expected. The frame and slide rails were clean like it had been shot more like 100 rounds than 1220.



Of course, some places had more dirt/debris than others and the pics actually look worse than seeing it face to face if you know what I mean. One absolutely amazing thing to me, was the feed ramp. In an M&P when a round feeds from the mag into the chamber, it nose dives into the feed ramp. I know, I know, I don't like that either, but that's the way it is. If you follow the slide with the least bit of resistance from your hand, the round hits the feed ramp and stops, holding the slide open. But, the feed ramp looked as if it had never been used! No sign of wear whatsoever.



Well the experiment ended yesterday. I cleaned it and fired another 75 rounds through it and it looks like I may shoot another 100 today - to celebrate the Super Bowl don't you know.











 

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Discussion Starter #3
I appreciate how you feel. I shoot about 10,000 rounds a year in various guns. From 3-Jan I've shot 1295 rounds through my M&P alone. When I go to a shooting school, we typically put 500 plus rounds through our guns a day. That's enough to make a gun look like the pics I posted.



In response to this very same post in another forum, I got this reply:



Tangle,

One of the local PD's received M&P's for evaluation.

Each weekend, after the USPSA match, we would burn about two thousand rounds through one of the M&Ps. It had been lubed at the start of the "test" and not cleaned, other than insuring the barrel was clear, through 12,000+ rounds.



There were a few stove pipes (3 or 4?) in that time period and it was with a specific round. We tried to intentionally to make it fail and really couldn't do it.


Guns don't have to be spotless or anywhere near it to run reliably. I'm not advocating we shouldn't clean our guns, and I'm sure not suggesting we wait until we have 1000 or so rounds through it, but we clearly don't have to as often as we may have been led to believe.



I'm not challenging here, just trying to get some insight. If you knew you were going to shoot 50 rounds, five days in a row, would you clean it after every use?



OK, if you knew that you'd shoot 500 rounds a day for five days in a row, how often would you clean it?
 

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if I was hooting 500 rounds a day for five days I'd clean it every day. seriously. I shot 100 rounds a day for about 3 days straight and only skipped one day for cleaning.



I'm just not use to having dirty guns. Maybe I'll take a chance and go shooting and just not clean it. That would make things easier. Go shooting then put it back in the box and throw it under the bed. It's the chemist in me that doesn't want to leave it dirty.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I hear ya and nothin' wrong with cleaning whenever you want to as often as you want to. You just seemed rather amazed that someone would fire so many rounds through a gun without cleaning it. But if you shot 500 rounds a day, and only cleaned it once a day, which you said you would, at the end of each day your gun would look pretty much like the pics I posted.



After I cleaned my M&P, after the 1220 rounds without cleaning it, the barrel looked like it had never been shot - feed ramp and all. There was no sign of copper or anything in the barrel.



Here's something interesting. A guy that designs and manufacturers top quality parts for Glocks, told me in a phone conversation that every time he cleans his Glock, he cleans the firing pin channel. Because, he says, so much crud builds up in it. Scary huh.



And think about how we clean - we basically only clean what we can see and reach via field stripping. What about all the other areas?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Morgan Walker said:
Dude, clean your weapon... Although I am amazed. Its like a train wreck, sadening, but yet you can not look away.
You seem rather impressed that one can fire 1220 rounds though an M&P without cleaning it. I would have been very disappointed if I couldn't. So let me ask, what's the maximum number of rounds one should shoot through an M&P without cleaning it?



Did you see my post where a PD shot 12,000+ rounds through an M&P without cleaning it?

And, they only lubed it at the beginning of the test!



Some 'feds' shot 13,000 through a Sig 229 without cleaning it and it worked just fine afterwards.



And a newspaper report of another PD testing the M&P:

"During testing, police dropped the guns, banged on them, even put 2,500 rounds through one in 40 minutes. "



2500 rounds in 40 minutes! the thing must have been smokin'.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Morgan,



I understand the 'clean' thing. It was equating a gun with 1220 rounds through it to a train wreck that seemed a bit odd. You must have missed where I said I cleaned it. I took the pics when I field stripped it to clean it.



I believe weapons need to be properly maintained too, but the very act of shooting gets it dirty, so it becomes a question of how often it should be cleaned, every 50, 100, 200, 500, 1000 rounds? Once a week? Once a month?



There seems to be a stigma that unless a gun is sparkling clean, it is not reliable. But actual shooting evidence shows that isn't true.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Just so there's no misunderstanding, please don't think I'm suggesting you can or should shoot thousands of rounds through your SD gun without cleaning it.



This was by far the most I have ever shot a gun without cleaning it and I did this because I had the problem at 300 rounds and I wanted to be sure 'dirty' was or was not the cause.



But, by sharing this here and on another forum, I have learned of evaluations of the M&P that make my 1220 rounds seem insignificant. What I have gained from my experience and replies to it is that an M&P is one rugged, super reliable gun even if it hasn't been cleaned after every use.
 
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