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Discussion Starter #1
Magazine Disconnect Safety

I see posts that decry them but would like to know the pros and cons.

Can anyone offer the reasons for and against them?



thanks
 

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Here's a couple.

Pro: If someone is battling you for your weapon, you can hit the mag release and it will no longer fire.

Con: If someone is battling you for your weapon, the mag release can be hit and you can no longer fire your weapon.
 

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It is a real PITA when shooting IDPA. Having to unload and show clear, then drop the hammer/striker is hard to do without a magazine. So, one has to use an empty magazine, which can make the SO uncomfortable. I got my M&P without the mag safety primarily for that reason.
 

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Landric said:
It is a real PITA when shooting IDPA. Having to unload and show clear, then drop the hammer/striker is hard to do without a magazine. So, one has to use an empty magazine, which can make the SO uncomfortable. I got my M&P without the mag safety primarily for that reason.
I disabled mine per the instructions here for the exact same reason.
 

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For: Reduce chance of ND by people who take out the magazine but forget to clear the chamber. Safety. As ledge said, some LE instructors teach that if you are in a wrestling match for your gun, you can hit the mag release and disable it. I have read one instance of it saving a trooper (ISP?) as written by a gunwriter.

Against: If you don't seat your mag fully or your mag becomes unseated during firing, you have an inoperable weapon and it make take a moment to figure out what the problem is...thus tap, rack bang drills. I refuse to call it "tap, rack, assess."
 

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Maybe I’m letting my common sense get the best of me here…




But if the rules of a match are causing people to disable a safety device as common as a magazine safety; is the problem with the firearm or with the rules?



Is this a problem in PPC matches also?
 

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I just insert an empty mag and drop "hammer", they have no problem with that.
 

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ToolMaker said:
Maybe I’m letting my common sense get the best of me here…




But if the rules of a match are causing people to disable a safety device as common as a magazine safety; is the problem with the firearm or with the rules?



Is this a problem in PPC matches also?


Is it really that common?



Springfield armory? No mag disconnects.

Glock? no magazine disconnects.

Sig? On their p210, nothing else that i know of.

Taurus? nope.

Ruger? On their p345.

FNH? optional on contract guns.

CZ? nope.

Witness? Nope.

Magnum research? nope.

STI? nope.

browning? Hi-power.

kahr? nope.

kel-tec? nope.



S&W? has it on many guns, optional on the M&P, AFAIK not installed on the 1911. their two newest offerings.





It's largely the product of trying to avoid lawsuits, although some police agencies require them.



Another reason people don't like them is they tend to negatively impact trigger pull. The M&P disconnect is a clever design, and avoids this.



It's not that common, and it's not much of a safety device. I don't professionally get into conforntations with people while openly carrying a firearm, and I don't leave my guns lying around at home? I do shot a lot in competition, and I'd have to buy a magazine just to keep empty and carry it with me dring courses of fire, then make sure I put the empty magazine into the gun at unload and show clear. This is a PITA, and I gain nothing from it.



So no magazine disconnect for me. I like that S&W makes it an optional feature. That way everyone goes home happy.
 

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Before I disabled my mag disconnect, I was going to make a fake mag out of a piece of pine to insert in and trip the mag disconnect lever. It was easy enough to do with a sharpie magic marker anyways. Perhaps a cheapo plastic fake mag would be a good accessory that someone could sell for competition. The rule definitely isn't flawed. The idea is to prove conclusively that the chamber is empty.
 

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Is it safe to assume that the warranty would be voided by doing the mag disconnect mod?
 

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I have one each way. For IDPA the no Mag disconnect is better choice. Police like the MD for the reasons stated above. Another advantage of a MD is the following. you can leave the gun loaded, take the mag out. Say you have a gun in your nightstand drawer and your grandkids are in the house. Put the mag in your pocket, the gun can be quickly used if needed by you but the gun is rather safe if a kid grabs it.



I note the trigger pulls are the SAME
 

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Turtle Dude said:
Another advantage of a MD is the following. you can leave the gun loaded, take the mag out. Say you have a gun in your nightstand drawer and your grandkids are in the house. Put the mag in your pocket, the gun can be quickly used if needed by you but the gun is rather safe if a kid grabs it.


But lets say you forgot to take your mag out of your pocket and throw it in a dirty clothes pile. Kid finds the mag and happens to find the gun. All the kid has to do is put the mag in the gun and its hot. I ALWAYS go chamber empty, mag out, and lockup my guns when they are not on my person and kids are around. Guess my point is... don't get too comfortable with ANY safety device. Its easy for a 3 year old to put a mag in a gun, its a little harder for them to rack the slide, its even harder for them to get to the gun if its locked up in the safe and not in the nightstand.



It might take a little long to get it out of the safe than the nightstand (not much longer for an electronic safe) and it might take a little longer to rack the slide (again, not much longer)...but its safer. Mag disconnect should NOT be used as a child-safe lock!
 

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i happen to like the piece of mind of a magazine safety. i agree with proper use and care of all firearms such as locking them up.



i have an 8 year old he's been properly trained NOT go into my bedroom and NOT to touch any guns IF he sees them. I have a safe with all three of my guns and usually leave it open when we are home. my Ruger P345 has a magazine safety just like my M&P9c. my glock 22 does NOT.



none of these features affect how I handle or carry these weapons in anyway. all i know is the glock will fire w/o the magazine while the other two will NOT.



it works for me, but i still treat the weapons as if they are loaded and do NOT pull the trigger unless i'm shooting at the range, doing a function check after cleaning or field stripping (glock only).....
 

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Easy to remove and put back mag safety lever in.



I took mine out b/c I like to shoot competitively. Putting a empty mag in it to show empty was just an extra step for me.
 

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I read a lot of negative things about internal locks and magazine safeties. I do not understand the problem with them. Ok I can understand the IDPA argument that you have to load an empty mag to make the audible click at the end of the stage. Other than be a slight inconvenience does that add to your time? Is there a penalty because of it?



I have also heard an argument what if you have a magazine drop out when you need to fire your gun. Along that line someone proposed what if you need yout pistol and you for got the internal lock? My problem with these argument is the whole "what if" factor. What if you got a bad round that blows up in the chamber? What if the slide release breaks and the slide comes off? What if monkeys snuck into your gun safe and stuffed the barrel full of macadamia nuts? If you have a pistol that you have tesed and known to be reliable why worry about every little "what if"? I know that like and system of moving parts a pistol can fail. Minimizing the complexity helps minimize the risk of failure. If you want true reliability carry a rock. As long as your arm is strong and your aim true you will hit your mark.



Ok I will don my flame suit now. Please be gentle I am a newbie here.
 

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What if you shot 16 of your 17 rounds and you are reaching for a new mag and the BG rushes you. With the mag safety you can't fire that last shot. The mag safety is another "security blanket" feature. It makes you feel better to have it. Be safe and responsible and you have no need to have it. If you don't want the gun to shoot it shouldn't be loaded. If you like the safety option then get it. Just remember that every safety adds another step that has to be disengaged. It may keep your gun from shooting when you need it the most.



I personally can't think of one instance of when the mag safety would be needed. If you don't want it to shoot then unload it. That is the safest position. I posted a major one of why it isn't needed.



I am far from an expert on this subject though. I will try and find the thread where this was debated in detail. I'll post the link if I can find it.
 

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What if you shot 16 of your 17 rounds and you are reaching for a new mag and the BG rushes you.


If you've still got a round in the gun, you've already fired 16 at the guy, and he's still standing ... why are you dropping your mag instead of firing that last shot?



I just don't buy the whole "I might need that one shot while reloading" line. I've never seen it come into play in Simunition training or any other practical exercise.



I have heard of a few instances where a magazine was loose in the gun because something inadvertently hit the mag eject button, and an officer was walking around with a gun that was only going to fire one round ... if he'd had a mag disconnect, it wouldn't have even fired that. While I can see that as a Bad Thing, in practical terms the difference between a gun that fires one round before it malfs and a gun that malfs right out of the holster is pretty slim.



On the other hand, I've heard and read many instances of officers who've lost the fight over their pistol and because they were able to eject the mag on a mag disconnect gun, the gun was disabled and the criminal wasn't able to return fire.



The other reason I like it, personally, is because in my experience most accidents happen during administrative handling of the gun. Since I'm not immune to making mistakes, it's one more level of protection to protect me if I brain fart. I prefer my brain farts to be identified without loud noises and unplanned 0.355" holes in things.



Is it a critical must-have thing? No. Definitely a "different strokes for different folks" decision. But I thought it was valuable enough that I had my no-mag-safety gun retrofitted. YMMV.
 
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