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Hello there. I'm a Dutch national, but I married an American and I've been living in Washington state for almost five years. I am not, as yet, a gun owner, not in the least place because Washington state law requires resident non-US citizens to get an Alien Firearms License (I know, it sounds like something you need to own a Martian heat ray or something) before they can so much as handle a firearm; the requirements for the AFL, unfortunately include things that the Dutch representation refuses to provide, so it was less hassle to simply wait until I got my US citizenship.



Well, that time is almost upon me; I have my naturalization ceremony coming Tuesday, and I intend to celebrate by hitting a range on the way home, renting a weapon or two, and exercising my newly acquired RKBA. I guess I'll file my application for a CPL (concealed pistol license) while I'm at it (right after I register to vote); not that I have any pressing need to carry in public, but it'll allow to side-step the waiting period associated with background checks.



I do feel the need to have a weapon or two for home defense purposes. I've got a 17 month-old boy, and my protective instincts are asserting themselves. Now, I live in a very safe town (fewer shooitngs here than there were in my home town in the Netherlands, tighter gun laws notwithstanding), but we had a major storm last December which knocked out the power in a wide swathe of the Puget Sound area. My neighborhood was only without power for nine hours (it took days to restore power in most places, and weeks in the rest), but during that time the emergency services had their hands seriously full. Now, we get storms like that every couple of years, and if next time some unscrupulous type wants to exploit in the worst possible way the strain the cops are under, I'd like to be prepared.



So aside from reading the collected works of Massad Ayoob, I've been doing market research (as much as one can without being able to legally handle a firearm) and the M&P currently tops my short list of candidates, because it combines a number of characteristics which no other readily available pistol seems to have. So I joined up to gather information and tips on this weapon.



Where my politics are concerned, according to the World's Smallest Political Quiz (I can't link yet, but look up theadvocates dot org if you're interested) I'm right on the corner of "Centrist," "Liberal" and "Libertarian." Right now, I support Bill Richardson for president; you may not like his positions on all the issues, but he's solidly pro-Second Amendment (as am I), and I think that that's the overriding question on a forum like this.



My handle is the slang term for members of my old regiment (when I was doing my national service in the Royal Netherlands Army in '93-'94), the Regiment Infanterie Chassé. My avatar is the regimental emblem of a "Burgundian cross," part of the coat of arms of the guy the regiment was named after: Lt. Gen. Baron David Chassé, who was one of the Dutch commanders at Waterloo.
 

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Welcome to the site.... Good luck :wink:
 

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Welcome and congrats on exercising your new rights.

As far as pistols are concerned, I believe S&W has the best one going in the M&P models. I am still a huge 1911 fan since I have been shooting it for a long time and carried it into combat. BUT, the 1911 has draw backs for carrying concealed and the fact it has to by cocked (open/exposed hammer) for it to do it's job. To clean it properly requires some time, but is a very accurate weapon (for a pistol)

The Glock is an oustanding 'field weapon' that will go 'bang' everytime. In my opinion, very boring to shoot and the factory sights should be replaced with metal ones along with the plastic guide rod changed to metal. Very easy to clean.

The M&P is a cross between the 1911 and a glock. You've got the same 'point-a-bility' as a 1911, good sights (Novak, not plastic sights you need to replace), adjustable rear straps to help the pistol fit YOUR hand, metal guide rod. Plus it's a sinch to clean.

I own numerous 1911's and use to own five Glocks (the Glocks were for CCW and the bedside protection for my wife when I was gone) I traded three of the Glocks for three M&P's and waiting for the 5" ers to come out and get rid of the other two Glocks.

My suggestion is to rent a Glock AND an M&P at your local firing range. Shoot them both back to back; you'll see why the M&P is closing the playing field on the Glock.

Again Congrats on becomming a citizen and Welcome.
 

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Welcome to the site...
 

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What are the odds .. I just joined two days ago from the other side of the country. Welcome fellow Dutchman! South Carolina law has been a lot nicer to me when WA law has been to you. I've been able to legally acquire firearms and my CWP as they call it here (Concealed Weapons Permit) since I moved here a few years ago.



In The Netherlands guns are practically impossible to obtain or own unless you are in law enforcement or the military. I truly enjoyed the first time I shot off a shotgun and a 44 revolver (what a monster that was at first) on a buddy's farmland.



Enjoy your new rights! However, don't forget to get proper training. I don't know if WA state requires you to get CPL/CWP training. SC did for me. Not having grown up with and around firearms, we have some catching up to do. If you have to get CPL/CWP training, don't stop there. Try to get as much training as possible. It will make shooting more fun, as you get better, and you will stay safe doing it.
 

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Welcome, and congrats on your naturalization!! (ever wonder if Halmark makes a card for that?) As you've noticed, both coasts of our great nation are protected from common sense by lawyers, so make sure your conceal carry class explains exactly what constitutes a clean shoot in your state. Also don't be afraid to ask questions, that's why you're taking a class.
 

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Welcome to the site and congrats on your citizenship. You came to the right place for information about the MP. There is all kind of posts on MP vs xx and as well as the reliability of this gun. Needless to say if you decide the MP is right for you, you wont be dissapointed.
 

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Congrats on your soon to be citizenship...it must be interesting to you because of how many americans take for granted our rights. As much as I love the MP if you want a primary home defense firearm I'd recommend a shotgun (12 gauge or 20 gauge variety). Don't discount the 20 gauge for being smaller...it's easier for my wife to shoot and even my follow up shots are quicker. Oh, if you buy from someplace like Budsgunshop you should be able to get a great deal on the MP and shotgun...probably almost the same cost as just the MP locally...The MP is a shooters dream. Either way WELCOME TO THE SITE!!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for the warm welcomes (both to the board and the country) so far, everyone.



Goblin086 said:
The Glock is an oustanding 'field weapon' that will go 'bang' everytime. In my opinion, very boring to shoot and the factory sights should be replaced with metal ones along with the plastic guide rod changed to metal. Very easy to clean.
I handed and fired a Glock 17 back in 1994, when I was still in the army (the Glock was replacing the ageing Browning Hi-Powers we had). Man-sized targets at 25 meters, and I didn't miss a single shot. I can see you'd say it's boring to shoot. The main problem I have with Glocks is that I'm left-handed, and the few controls the Glock has (magazine release, slide stop) are all on the left side of the weapon, inconveniently placed for lefties. Glock's own website says the oval mag release catch, which would remedy that problem, is "not available for the US market"; herzlichen Dank, fellas. I know, I know, there's workarounds to that problem, but I figure that if I'm shelling out $500+ for a weapon, I shouldn't be expected to compromise.



So no Glocks for me, thank you. The Springfield XD is pretty high on my shortlist, but the M&P has some available features (interchangeable backstrap, internal lock, availability of Crimson Trace grips) that the XD doesn't. Still, the XD is still a candidate, so I'll have to try that one at the range.



SCFireFighter said:
Enjoy your new rights! However, don't forget to get proper training. I don't know if WA state requires you to get CPL/CWP training. SC did for me. Not having grown up with and around firearms, we have some catching up to do. If you have to get CPL/CWP training, don't stop there. Try to get as much training as possible. It will make shooting more fun, as you get better, and you will stay safe doing it.
Washington, being one of the original "shall-issue" states, doesn't require training for a CPL, but I was planning on getting some anyway. I had firearm safety drummed into me very thoroughly in the army, but it's been 13 years since I was demobilized, and I haven't fired a gun since, so I'm a little rusty. Also, my wife has never handled a firearm, and she's unwilling to have one in the house unless she knows how to operate it (and rightly so). But we're fortunate in that we live an hour's drive north of the Firearms Academy of Seattle, so we're definitely planning to take some courses there (based in no small part on the recommendations of one of my brothers-in-law). Their Handgun Safety Seminar covers all the basics, including laws governing use of force in WA and OR, and I'd be inclined to follow that up with Home Defense 101 at the bare minimum, and probably Concealed Carry 101 as well. Taking further courses will depend on whether the cash is available, but I'd certainly like to take as many as possible, including Massad Ayoob's LFI-1, which is held at FAS every year.



FieroCDSP said:
As you've noticed, both coasts of our great nation are protected from common sense by lawyers [...]
That's true enough for California, but significantly less so for Washington and Oregon, I'm happy to say.



Fire1 said:
As much as I love the MP if you want a primary home defense firearm I'd recommend a shotgun (12 gauge or 20 gauge variety).
I've found Massad Ayoob's arguments quite persuasive that if you're going to own just one firearm for home defense, it should be a handgun. That said, a shotgun will most likely be in the cards not too far down the line (not just for HD but also as a camp gun), as will a rifle, but I'm taking this one step at a time for now.



Well, thanks again for the kind words, and I look forward to picking your brains.
 
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