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Significant Other allowed me to get a new gun for my birthday and so I finally had a chance to see and fondle some M&P 45's today at a gun show. I have to admit, the Quality Control on them was obviously lacking. The extractors on all four that I looked at made the guns look very used. I can't overstate how horrible the extractors looked. The overall finish of the whole slide itself was crappy on at least two of them. They looked especially bad when held up next to other M&P pistols. The one manual safety available had a flimsy and cheap feel to it and seemed like it would be easy to sweep off accidentaly (more so than say on a 1911).



They do have the great M&P feel in your hand, but after looking them over closely several times, I ended up getting my first ever Glock, a model 20 (10mm), instead. I think I will wait awhile before I get the 45.
 

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Sounds like a good decision. After spending some time with my M&P I decided to go back Glock. Now have a Bowie Signature Series (G19) on the way. I also have a G20, you will not be disappointed by the reliability and accuracy. By the way, check out DoubleTap's offerings in 10mm




 

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choochboost said:
[quote name='TexanAviator']After spending some time with my M&P I decided to go back Glock.
I was wondering what happened to you.[/quote]



Work + upcoming interview = me not being around much




This is the first real day off that I have seen in about two months. I've got tommorow off too
 

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snscott said:
Significant Other allowed me to get a new gun for my birthday and so I finally had a chance to see and fondle some M&P 45's today at a gun show. I have to admit, the Quality Control on them was obviously lacking. The extractors on all four that I looked at made the guns look very used. I can't overstate how horrible the extractors looked. The overall finish of the whole slide itself was crappy on at least two of them. They looked especially bad when held up next to other M&P pistols. The one manual safety available had a flimsy and cheap feel to it and seemed like it would be easy to sweep off accidentaly (more so than say on a 1911).



They do have the great M&P feel in your hand, but after looking them over closely several times, I ended up getting my first ever Glock, a model 20 (10mm), instead. I think I will wait awhile before I get the 45.
That's actually amusing, you didn't buy the smith because it wasn't aesthetically pleasing to you and you bought a Glock instead, the ugliest handgun in the world! :roll: Seriously some of you need to lighten up, Glock's, M&P's etc. are all working handguns, not artworks. Who cares if the slidestop is off color as long as you can shoot the damn thing, geez guys :roll:

s
 

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Discussion Starter #6
trouble said:
That's actually amusing, you didn't buy the smith because it wasn't aesthetically pleasing to you and you bought a Glock instead, the ugliest handgun in the world! :roll: Seriously some of you need to lighten up, Glock's, M&P's etc. are all working handguns, not artworks. Who cares if the slidestop is off color as long as you can shoot the damn thing, geez guys :roll:
:roll:

No, I did not pass on the MP45 because of "aesthetics". I passed on them because the "out of the box" finish on them made them look used (seriously). My theory here is if they can't be bothered with polishing off the finish of the gun, then how many other quality control corners did they cut internally to get them out the door as quickly as possible? And it was the extractors, not the slide stops. They were not just "off color" - they looked downright ABUSED. I mean CHUNKS of finishing were completely gone and the bare metal was showing. Looked pretty ragged.



Since I went with the Glock, obviously mere "aesthetics" were not an issue.
(Although I disagree -- I think the ugliest handgun out there has got to be the Hi-Point)



TexanAviator said:
By the way, check out DoubleTap's offerings in 10mm
Ordered some of his fantastic 165gr Gold Dots as soon as I got home from the show, Tex.
 

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snscott said:
[quote name='TexanAviator']By the way, check out DoubleTap's offerings in 10mm
Ordered some of his fantastic 165gr Gold Dots as soon as I got home from the show, Tex.
[/quote]



Very nice! Mike is a great guy.... Looks like you are all setup! Congrats again. I'll post pics up once my G19 is finished and home. Let us know how it shoots (like we dont know allready :wink: )
 

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[/quote]

:roll:

No, I did not pass on the MP45 because of "aesthetics". I passed on them because the "out of the box" finish on them made them look used (seriously). My theory here is if they can't be bothered with polishing off the finish of the gun, then how many other quality control corners did they cut internally to get them out the door as quickly as possible? And it was the extractors, not the slide stops. They were not just "off color" - they looked downright ABUSED. I mean CHUNKS of finishing were completely gone and the bare metal was showing. Looked pretty ragged.



Since I went with the Glock, obviously mere "aesthetics" were not an issue.
(Although I disagree -- I think the ugliest handgun out there has got to be the Hi-Point)





[/quote] And how is that not an aesthetics issue?? So the finish looks used, so what. My point remains valid you chose the glock because the finish looked better than the M&P, foregoing the M&P's superior ergonomics and shootability. Your loss and i'm not trying to single you out, many others both here and elsewhere have made similiar complaints. Once again who cares what the finish looks like as long as you can shoot it well and it functions fine???
 

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Yes, I have to agree. My 45 had a crappy finish, and the trigger sucked bad. SO, I sent mine to Dan Burwell to have the only two minor shotcomings fixed. He is refinishing my slide, barrel, control levers, and the sear and locking block frames with the Teflon/Nickle finish, and also doing a 5.0# trigger job. I cant wait to get my 45 back from Dan!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
trouble said:
And how is that not an aesthetics issue?? So the finish looks used, so what. My point remains valid you chose the glock because the finish looked better than the M&P, foregoing the M&P's superior ergonomics and shootability. Your loss and i'm not trying to single you out, many others both here and elsewhere have made similiar complaints. Once again who cares what the finish looks like as long as you can shoot it well and it functions fine???


I repeat: The extractors looked ABUSED rather than just used. They looked really, really bad. I say a company has serious problems if the finish has already apparently flaked off right out of the box. But, ok, I will concede it is an 'aesthetics' issue to prefer my brand new gun to not look like parts of it had been run over in the parking lot a few times.



So, it is not anything at all like the Purple Extractor "feature" of some HK's. There is a difference between parts finishes not matching color-wise and finish appearing to be chipped or worn off on a brand new gun.



I did not choose the Glock because the finish was better (although, in all honesty, it was significantly). I went with the Glock 20 as the "next best thing" on my birthday gun wish list when I went to the show (the MP45 was first on the list). I've been wanting a 10mm for awhile and so seeing this just pushed me over the edge to the Dark Side.



No different than if you went shopping for a new car and found the one you wanted, but with areas on the body where paint had not been applied and the bare metal was shining through-- you'd pass on that car. You certainly would not pay "full" price for something like that. Now, imagine every car on the lot from THAT manufacturer had the same very visible issues. You'd really start to wonder about that. Now, add to this that I was one of the people whose MP40 had to be shipped back to S&W to have the whole frame replaced to solve the infamous "mag drop" issue and you can see why I had to stop and say "hmmm". :?
 

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I have the MP40 and the machining finish wasn't all that great on the slide serrations. It looks the the cutting bit didn't make a full pass and left the sharp corner so I had actual burrs and chips hanging off the ends and the melontie finish was just applied with the burrs on it. I got it home and took some of it off trying not the damage the melonite finish itself. They were on the coners and figured it would wear off anyways so I left it alone. Its only on the right side and besides the gun is a tool and it didn't affect its performance. I think of it as its signature so I know its mine.
 

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Sent mine back today

After a month of thinking I took my M&P 45 back and bitched. The slide on the right side had a small spot of the steel showing. The melonite finnish didn't take or some thing. The crown of the slide looked like it had been dropped or hit with some thing before the melonite finnish had been put on. On the left side of the guide rod housing the melonite finish is uneven. Scheels is the store I bought it from and they are going to send it back to S&W this week. I hope they put a new slide on it and call it good. The extractor finnish on this 45 looked great compaired to the others I have seen.



I paid a good amount of money for this gun. I am a bit upset that S&W let this gun out of the factory this way. When I bought my M&P 40 almost a year ago it looked great and now with a bit of shooting & holster wear it still looks good. I think S&W wanted to get the 45 out so fast they took short cuts which really upsets me. They have a fine and long standing code to customers of quailty and fine craftsmenship. I know they will make my 45 look better and treat me right but I still am unhappy that they let this gun go out.
 

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maybe i am old school, all my guns are used, and look used.



when I get tired of it, they go off to be redone.



no more, no less.



all i really care about is it goes bang.

:?
 

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I guess I am even more old school. If I purchase something new, I expect it to look new as well as work perfectly. To me, if the finish and machining leave a lot to be desired, what else might there be that isn’t perfect? Could the item have been assembled using bad parts? Might there be more defects than meets the eye? I agree that wear and tear on a weapon are normal, and no matter how well you take care of them blemishes will appear.



I own a business, a computer store. I repair, build, and install computer systems, networks, cabling, and anything else that has anything to do with computer systems. I personally will not sign off on a job unless everything is running perfectly, and looks perfect. If I am building a personal PC for a customer, I make sure all internal cabling in nice and neat, tucked away and unobtrusive. I replace the fans that come with various components with high quality fans so the customer will not have to deal with a fan vibrating after a few months to a few years of use. Everything is wiped down after a new build, making sure that fingerprints, smudges, etc are wiped off of all components and the computer looks new, smells, new, and most importantly performs new. If I do not perform all of these steps, the customer may not like what he or she see's in the system and may perceive that they have received an inferior product. Once a customer has that perception my experience says that they will look for problems even where there aren’t any.



I don’t pretend to know what steps S&W has to go through to get the amount of product it sells out its doors, but I do know what it takes to satisfy a customer. Fit and finish are part and parcel to selling any new product and must be maintained to keep your customers satisfied, recommending your product to others, and coming back for more products in the future.



S&W IMHO has had a hard row to hoe due to current public perception. The Glock knockoff of several years ago, along with other issues has given them a bad name in the industry. With the M&P they have an opportunity to change that perception and become a leader in the industry yet again. With the problems in manufacturing that they are obviously having, this will set that mission back immensely, and could in all ways doom the M&P line to be perceived as second rate no matter how good it actually is.



Don't get me wrong, I love my M&P 40. It has been very reliable and seems to be a very well made weapon. I have a few small gripes with some of the components, but most of those are internal, and I am a picky *******. I plan to have all of these issues repaired by sending it in to be ion coated with the semi-gloss black finish, along with a good session with Dan Burwell and his magic.



To give you an idea of how picky i am, I have an old .22 rifle plinker. Its an old Sears & Roebuck made by High Standard. I picked this up around 15 years ago from a pawn shop, and I use it for plinking, nothing more, nothing less. I take a few hundred rounds down to the river, and take out my aggressions on inanimate objects for a day or so, it’s very relaxing to the soul.
Several years ago I decided to refinish the stock as it was pretty beat up. After stripping the stock I found that it was Black Walnut. I went ahead and refinished the stock using 27 coats of Tongue Oil, with a buffing in-between each coat with 0000 steel- wool. The 27 coats is what it took to get a nice glossy smooth finish and to fully pull the color and grain out of the wood. The weapon has recently become unreliable due to wear and tear and tons of use. I am in the process of rebuilding the gun to the detriment of price. Every moving part is being replaced with new parts, and all of those new parts are to be cleaned up, polished, de-burred, and as perfect as possible before the gun will be re-assembled. Once done, the gun won't look like anything special, just another 22 plinker, but the fit and finish will be better than designed, and I will have a fun toy that should last another 60 years if not longer. Not to mention it will be better made than anything off the shelf. The only update will be to the sites, I plan to get rid of the old stamped steel rear iron site and the brass front site with something that has a better site window, with what I haven’t figured out yet. So far the only parts it looks like I will reuse will be the receiver, barrel (maybe as the ramp is pretty worn), the receiver tube, and brass magazine slide.



I am sorry if i got off the subject abit, but my point is a quality product does indeed have to have a good fit and finish if its to be competitive on the open market.
 

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Gentlemen, let's not let this thread turn into a pissing contest.



The M&P45 that I handled looked used but was brand new. While I personally don't care I think this gives the appearance that their QC is shabby. This may or my not be the truth but people think what else could be wrong if they ship a gun that looks like this.



Yes it's a combat handgun but if they want to compete with Glock they will need to pay attention to those little details.
 

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Angry_American said:
My appologies, I did not intend to do anything other than voice an opinion.


No need to apologize and discussing our opinions and experiences are what this forum is about. Carry on AA!
 

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snscott said:
trouble said:
Since I went with the Glock, obviously mere "aesthetics" were not an issue.
(Although I disagree -- I think the ugliest handgun out there has got to be the Hi-Point)


I have to agree on both counts. First, the quality on the M&P .45 line seems to vary greatly. I saw two of them at gun dealers prior to ordering mine from Buds and I was very. very hesitant. The slide finishes were very sloppy and the lettering was barely legible. I was prepared to return mine to the factory if it was not up to the same standard as my two M&P 9mm's but thankfully it was in good condition and I did not need to resort to that option.



Second, the Hi-Point is with out a doubt the UGLIEST handgun every made!
 

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I rushed to the gunstore to look at the new .45 when it came out and I was underwhelmed. The gun looked like it had been tumbled, finish was terrible and the gun in general was not what I expected after putting over 3500 rounds thru a full size M&P9. Fast forward to last week and the .45 that I examined and bought was every bit as nice as my 9mm. Shot 150 rds. today of various loads and it worked perfectly. I like it.
 
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