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Discussion Starter #1
Wow, I just put in my DPM system today and my .40 feels like a .22. This is amazing and all it takes is a swap out of the stock spring for the DPM spring. Woah, I wonder what this does for a .45 I mean my follow up shots have improved dramatically. I can rapid fire with one hand and get tight grouping in about 24 yards this is something you all need to check out! Heres a review on gunblast.com about this system, I mean this is amazing! It is not a false hype this thing really reduces recoil dramatically, and given that the M&P doens't have much recoil to begin with, the DPM system minimizes the recoil close to a .22. For 60 bucks Its a hell of a little investment for me they ought to put these in all guns!




M&P.40 DPM System review below



http://www.gunblast.com/DPM-SWMP.htm
 

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I always wondered about that spring system by DPm. I might just get one now!!
 

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I wonder if the DPM system affects dependability of the M&P & after how many rounds they have to be replaced. They're not cheap.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I have had my DPM System in my M&P with over 1000 rounds through it and I have never had any jambs, lock ups at all. Not only is it designed to give you accurate and quicker follow up shots but it is confirmed that the DPM system actually cussions the slides impact with the frame of the gun, thus prolonging the condition of internal parts from wear & tear. Also because it has a life time warranty If for some reason it gives out the manufacture will replace it at no cost.
 

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So whats the draw back? Surely there is a reason that these arent used by everyone and their grandma in IDPA/IPSC? Why aren't manufacturers having similiar set ups stock?
 

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The draw back is that they are 60 bucks a pop! :wink:
 

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They are illegal for IDPA. I don't know about IPSC, it seems like they have a place for every incarnation of variation in tarnation their classes.
 

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ClosetCaseNerd said:
So whats the draw back? Surely there is a reason that these arent used by everyone and their grandma in IDPA/IPSC? Why aren't manufacturers having similiar set ups stock?


It's basically a two stage recoil spring. Kind of like The Springco kit, or the recoil master, or the setup in the USP.



You do see some of these get use in competition, but by and large they are avoided as they are a bit less reliable, are expensive to keep spares on hand for, and they make the sight track in a funky manor compared to normal springs. This last one is probably the primary reason they are avoided and the recoil master is the most common. It's the only one that ships in off the shelf guns used by a lot of competitors, so they build their skills using it when the thing comes out of the box (STI).



The dual recoil spring setups in production can be a bit iffy shooting minor power factor ammo as well.



As for the magnetic doohickey, I really have to question it. First the companies explanation of how the magnet works is a load of crap. It's just wrong regarding basic physics. At best what it might do is prolong the lockup of the gun by some very small ammount of time thus transferring more recoil energy to the frame rather than the slide.



If they weren't so expensive and more available, I might try one.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Ok, its expensive but at the end of the year, ammunition, gas for going to buy ammunition, maintenance, and shooting ranges all together can be pretty expensive too. If you are going to spend the money and time shooting slower less accurate shots, then why hold back for another $60 dollars that would not only improve your shooting but also decrease the wear & tear on your gun. This makes the investment in ammunition and in your gun not only more enjoyable but a lot more down to the point. What good is investing in a large caliber 15 round pistol if firing it rapidly is going to get you 2 hits out of 15 shots. I'd rather get 5 out of 15 then 2. Your life depends on the probability of apprehending your attacker!



Technology is always changing. I think that there will always be a risk trying it out, but we have to accept that it is a whole lot more percise and assured nowadays. Lately, if something sounds too good to be true it just might not be. I gave the DPM system a chance and it proved a whole lot more than $60 dollars would! I mean 40 years ago the mere thought of a plastic gun would raise laughter from hell.
One might assume it would melt! But they are successful now and thanks to those people who gave it a shot there is now guns like our M&Ps that will soon be widely depended on!



I am confident to say that just like plastic guns became trusted, DPM is the next generation of recoil springs! :idea:
 

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I was considering getting one of the mechanical kits (and still may). An earlier poster mentioned it is illegal for IDPA use. As a IDPA newb, I'm now rethinking getting one. Maybe I'll just get a kit and keep the stock guide and spring for the Tuesday night get togethers.
 

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AGAYA82...That's a pretty good endorsement. I'll have to order one as soon as I get my M&P. It's funny that I didn't get any responses about the DPM on glock talk, especially since the first test was done on a glock over a year ago.
 

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agaya82 said:
If you are going to spend the money and time shooting slower less accurate shots, then why hold back for another $60 dollars that would not only improve your shooting but also decrease the wear & tear on your gun. This makes the investment in ammunition and in your gun not only more enjoyable but a lot more down to the point. What good is investing in a large caliber 15 round pistol if firing it rapidly is going to get you 2 hits out of 15 shots. I'd rather get 5 out of 15 then 2. Your life depends on the probability of apprehending your attacker!



Technology is always changing. I think that there will always be a risk trying it out, but we have to accept that it is a whole lot more percise and assured nowadays. Lately, if something sounds too good to be true it just might not be. I gave the DPM system a chance and it proved a whole lot more than $60 dollars would! I mean 40 years ago the mere thought of a plastic gun would raise laughter from hell.
One might assume it would melt! But they are successful now and thanks to those people who gave it a shot there is now guns like our M&Ps that will soon be widely depended on!



I am confident to say that just like plastic guns became trusted, DPM is the next generation of recoil springs! :idea:


Well, I'd rather hit 15 out of 15 shots. So I practice a lot. Which means springs are a consumable item. At $60 a pop, that's an expensive consumable.



Sure, $60 bucks might be realtively inexpensivecompared to the sum total cost of shooting, but if that $60 investment breaks and causes one to have to sit out a $100 match, it gets more expensive. Add a spare to avoid that, it's now a $120 fancy spring. Not a huge sum, but it's about a case of reloads for me, and that's a solid ammount of practice to throw away.



Multi-stage recoil springs have been around since the late 80s at least. They are just a more reliable way of getting a variable spring rate, and give you the ability to get a greater disparity in spring rates into the same space.



There's the sprinco rod, http://www.sprinco.com/recoil.html which looks almost idnetical toe the DPM "mechanical" system. There's also the STI recoil master ( see a pic here: http://www.dawsonprecision.com/ProductDeta...0000-1093363050 ) which is also basically the same thing except for how they capture the springs. The recoil system in the H&K USP is also basically the same thing. There have been several others in the market as well.



When you add these types of systems to a pistol not designed for them (i.e. consistant factory setup), you can get functioning. Even if they functiuon perfectly, they make the front sight move funny IMO.



I'm NOT dismissing these types of things without having tried them. Heck, I've OWNED two guns with two stage recoil springs in them and have shot both of them a fair ammount. Except in compact guns where both springs are under some load with the gun fully in battery, I find them to be more detrimental to fast shooting than a plain old straight guide rod as they make the front sight track oddly.



If I wanted to switch to one, I'd probably go spinco as they are in the US, have a more mature product that went through growing pains, and have some guys I know are OK people vouching for them. Whereas I can't even get the DPM system priced in US dollars.





Multi-stage recoil systems have been around for about 20 years at LEAST. They aren't new.



AS for polymer guns 40 years ago, H&K was designing them 40 years ago basically. Such as the H&K vp70z and p9s.
 

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I didn't want to chime in this thread, because I didn't want to make anyone upset, but.....I feel that dual stage recoil springs are a waste of money, including this one.



The magnetic recoil reduction stuff they mention is trash.

Many of these double recoil spring systems go to heavier springs which will make them seem flippy and slow down your follow up shots. The heavier spring can also make your gun less reliable.



Of all the different versions, the Sprinco seems to be the only one I hear about on the Enos forum.



If you go to Sigforums I believe and run a search, I believe Bruce Gray compares the USP double recoil spring and his single spring set up in one.



Your $60 would be better spent on ammo and practice. The benefits you notice are in your head. Get a timer and time yourself to give a more objective view.
 

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Thanks guys, I too searched the larger forums I know of and got narry a hit...nothing more then a mention. Nothing in depth. I appreciate your honesty. I find it hard to believe that if these were truely all they are said to be, they wouldn't be widely adopted by competitive shooters (IPSC seems to allow everything under the sun at some level).



As for turning the .40 into a .22... that kind of made me go "yeah-hokkayyy". Your pushing these springs pretty hard... sure you dont got stock in DPM agaya? :wink:



I don't wanna scoff at your opinion agaya, but it seems your one of the very few touting these springs as being an improvement. Now I will say that the concept of smoothing out initial recoil impulse can actually go a long way demonstrated by this little pea shooter: http://youtube.com/watch?v=mLclXvEqJXI but everyone leads me to believe that we just aren't there yet when it comes to pistol technology...no matter the upgrade.



(If anyone has seen a 81mm mortar fire, they will have a big appreciation for that video clip)
 

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Range Report with DMS system

I installed my new DMS recoil reducing spring assembly today and shot about 150 rounds at the range. It installed without issue and requires nothing more than stripping the pistol and swapping the assemblies. I did on the firing line between shots to see the immediate effect. I am using the gold 15 lbs recoil spring supplied with the kit. They also include a silver 16 lb spring.



The assembly appears well made. Unlike the stock captive spring, the DMS system uses a captive spring and an outer removable full size non captive spring



Muzzle flip was noticeably less and recoil was definitely softer. They were not huge improvements given the rather steep price of the little bugger relative to the cost of the pistol, but effective none-the-less. I did not experience any malfunctions of any sort, consistent with the operation of the pistol using the stop spring.



Do I think it is worth it, well if you like gadgets and have $68 to burn, then maybe. If you are prudent with your money, a Burwell trigger job is a much better alternative and will have a more dramatic impact on your shot placement and overall enjoyment of the pistol.



Is anyone using the 16 lb spring who has this device. Is there much of a difference?
 

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A little overstated

I would think so. Yes, there is a difference, but a trigger job would make a great difference.



Something to think about. After cleaning the pistol last night I reinstalled the assembly and the gun froze. The slide would not slide forward or back. I had seen this on a Beretta 92 before with an aftermarket assembly that required a firm hit on a wall to break it loose. It appears the rod did not seat correctly, or the spring had some binding issue. Regardless, I was able to wiggle it free after some time, but it has since shaken my confidence in the device, particularly because the potential benefit is not enough to jeopardize the reliability of the pistol.
 

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I don't know why I can't learn to keep my mouth shut, but I just can't. I really don't mean any offense to agaya82 but your praise of this device seems WAAAAAAAAAAAY over the top. As has been stated there are many of these devices and the others have been around for awhile and have some feedback, both good and bad. I have personally used the Sprinco on my CZ Ipsc standard and tactical sport. It was a solid product. Did I notice the huge improvement you do? Not quite. You really sound like a company spokesman. As hobbists, whatever the hobby, we have a great love of gadgets. Our hearts sometimes convince us the item we just bought was worth the money we spent even though our brains know differently. I saw this same article on gunblast as you. Hate to break this to you but he has been wrong before and they are his opinions and he is entitled to them, just as you are. I don't know if you caught this but he is using a Glock part in the MP, hmmm? Since I have used the Sprinco I called them and talked it over. They could have sold me a part right there but they chose to tell me that the parts are not interchangeble between the two makes of pistols. The parts are similar but not an exact fit, they are working on an exact fit. If this gun is a toy to you, then by all means if it makes you feel better than use it. But your claims of massive improvements are goofy. Those of us that use a weapon in the line of duty or choose to carry to exercise their God given right and responsibility to protect their families and others MUST choose carefully what they do to their weapons. There are no do-overs in the real world. You don't use a glock spec part in a M&P if you or your family is counting on this weapon. Many good items and tactics have come from the competition world. Leave parts like these in that world. It is your life and your gun, choose wisely.
 
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