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Discussion Starter #1
guys,



i hijacked a post onthe M&P forum, and it turned into a reloading post.



I'm bringing it here now, where it belongs!!



I'm considering loading 9mm's with VV 320 with a 147GR FMJ Bullet.



To achieve the 125 minimum Power factor for USPSA Production Class I would need to hit 850.34 FPS with the 147Gr bullet.



I would like to load to a 130PF, just to be on the safe side of things!!



So....



I would need to hit a 884.35 FPS!!



What do you guys think??



How are you loading your 9mm's??
 

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I am using Zero 147 gr JHP, Win Brass, Win primers, 3.8 gr. win 231, OAL 1.145. I find the w231 is just as accurate as VV and a lot cheaper and easier to find.

--Lin
 

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I was using a masterblaster 147gr in front of I think it was 3.2gr VV320 for a 130 PF, But I had problems finding the 320 2 days before a match so I switched to titegroup not sure of the charge right now but it wasn't much and it too was a 130 PF but it did feel a little snappier then the 320. the titegroup just had more pop where the 320 had a more rubbery feeling(don't know how else to describe it)



Those were for my custom SVI 9mm IDPA super gamer. For the M&P since it is a 40 I have been using 200 grain precision with about 4 grains of AA#5. Really really soft I think it makes 130-135 PF I haven't chronoed it but the load was actually in a book and it said it would make the required
625fps
(my pellet guns shoots faster then my M&P
:oops: )



The only reason I am using the AA#5 is I got several pounds of it free. It seems to leave a good bit of unburnt powder in the gun but doesn't leave that brown haze all over the front of the gun like some powders do.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Dan Burwell said:
I was using a masterblaster 147gr in front of I think it was 3.2gr VV320 for a 130 PF, But I had problems finding the 320 2 days before a match so I switched to titegroup not sure of the charge right now but it wasn't much and it too was a 130 PF but it did feel a little snappier then the 320. the titegroup just had more pop where the 320 had a more rubbery feeling(don't know how else to describe it)



Those were for my custom SVI 9mm IDPA super gamer. For the M&P since it is a 40 I have been using 200 grain precision with about 4 grains of AA#5. Really really soft I think it makes 130-135 PF I haven't chronoed it but the load was actually in a book and it said it would make the required
625fps
(my pellet guns shoots faster then my M&P
:oops: )



The only reason I am using the AA#5 is I got several pounds of it free. It seems to leave a good bit of unburnt powder in the gun but doesn't leave that brown haze all over the front of the gun like some powders do.


OK Dan,



What recoil spring are you using with your M&P 40??



The Spring from a BIC Ball Point Pen??




625 FPS??
GAMER!!!




I bet your SVI IDPA Gamer is a soft shooting SOB!!



I have a couple STI Custom Eagles in 40 with a Short & Wide Dust Cover and a Standard Slide with Bomars, this is where I shoot my Major 40's in.



I have an STI Project in mind, you can help me with 8) 8)



Thanks for the Info though
 

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As for the recoil spring I have been using the stock one just cause I haven't had enough time to test the 13#ISMI to make sure it will still be reliable.

ysued said:
625 FPS??
GAMER!!!
Who?.... ME :wink:

The guys I shoot with don't like pasting after I shoot cause they have to pick the bullets out of the target before they can put the pasties on the targets, or at least that is what they tell me :roll:



I do like the 40 a bit better than the 9 for Minor loads mostly because I don't have to use the VV320 that I cannot find anywhere and the feel is just as good as the VV320. I also think it takes steel down a bit better than the 9 loads, so I think I am going to stick with it.
 

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Hi Dan,

Do you recall what OAL you are seating the MasterBlaster 147gr 9mm bullets at? Are you pretty happy with the MasterBlaster's?



Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yes Dan, Spill the beans!!



I need Loading info for 147's!!



I have never loaded 147's!!
 

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OK,

you all are lucky, I found about a dozen in left in a marked box. The OAL measured 1.117 and the load was 3.5 grains of the VV320.



The length will need to be shortened down a bit I think 1.16 will work in the M&P mags the 1.17 just barely work you have to load 1-2 then tap the back of the mag against a hard surface and load another 2 then tap gets to be a pain if you just shorten them up a bit they should work fine, and you shouldn't get any pressure issues going to 1.16 even 1.15 should still be fine may even get away with a little less powder if you shorten to 1.15.



Disclaimer: These loads are not from published data so use at your own risk start 10% down and work up looking for signs of pressure if you don not know what signs of pressure to be looking for you probably shouldn't be trying these loads.
 

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Ive been loading 147gr jacketed bullets (either Precision Delta or Zero), 3.4grs Titegroup, 1.100 OAL, Winchester or Federal SP primers.



They chrono out of a CZ at about 885-905 fps, depending on what gun and barrel type. I think 320 is about the same, 3.4 - 3.5grs should give about the same velocity. The 147's is pretty much the standard that most of your top Prod shooters are going with.



3.8grs 231 should also give about 890-915 fps, just feels a little more snappy than w/ TG or 320. Plus, 320 and TG do not appear temperature sensitive very much at all. Dont know about 231, but others who use it have told me it is. Ive still got an 8lb jug of TG to finish before I look at anything else. If you use black or polymer bullets, you can probaby take a .1 off, maybe even .2.
 

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don't have an M&P recipie, but I have some production 9mm recipies/



One a friend was using:

147gr zero HP over 3.2 grains of titegroup. OAL of 1.150 they were getting about 127pf out of their cz-75. IMO it was borderline for power factor and functionality, but 3.4gr with a ~1.12 OAL would probably do the trick.



What I was using for my baby eagle.

124gr precision delta FMJ over 4.3gr of titegroup. OAL of 1.12 was giving me an average PF of 146. So a bit hot. But they shot clean and were nice and accurate. Also made 126pf out of my STI ls-9.
 

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With 124's out of a CZ, 4.1grs TG gives you 130-131 pf.



If you're friend was loading rounds to 1.150 in a CZ, I dont know how he was getting them to function in the mag. They dont like long rounds and begin dragging up the front of the mag causing malfunctions. CZ's like shorter OAL's.
 

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145 LRN for practice

I'm loading a 145 LRN by Valiant over 2.9 gr of Tightgroup, Fed primer, mixed brass, 1.16 oal. Works great in springfield 1911 and for hitting steel at local matches. Going to Berry's 147 plated when I get my new M&P mainly to eliminate the smoke from the lube when I shoot the matches.
 

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K said:
With 124's out of a CZ, 4.1grs TG gives you 130-131 pf.



If you're friend was loading rounds to 1.150 in a CZ, I dont know how he was getting them to function in the mag. They dont like long rounds and begin dragging up the front of the mag causing malfunctions. CZ's like shorter OAL's.


I don't know either. Which is why you'll note on the 124 recipie, I altered the OAL to something that worked well in my baby eagle. You'll also note I suggested some realistic sounding alterations to the load. While i believe the recipie is plenty safe, i don't think it will run particularly well.
 

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Ah, raz-o,



I just re-read your post. Is your buddy shooting a CZ75 or CZ 75 SP01? The CZ 75 you can get away with loading a little longer, in the 1.150-1.160-1.170 OAL range. But with the SP01's, they want shorter ammo.



I think that might be it.
 

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Has anyone tried reduced power recoil springs with competition 9mm loads?



What is working best with your ~130pf loads in 9mm?



ISMI 13lb? Clipped coils? What guide rod?



Wolff 12lb? Clipped coils? What guide rod?



Anyone know the weights of the stock guide rod, after market solid guide rod sold by Speed Shooter Specialties, and after market solid guide rod sold by Wolff?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Jester said:
I use the 15lb in my 40 reduced loads. I think dan tried the 13 in his 9mm with good success.


Yea, but Dan's 40 Reduced reloads are made with 3.5 Grains of Cream of Wheat and a Magnum Primer with a 200 grain Bullet. When other shooters go paste his holes at IDPA matches, they have to pull his bullets from the Holes before they paste!!




He actually reloads the same bullets over and over again!! 8)



Oh, and his recoil spring is the Spring from a ballpoint pen!! :wink:
 

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I tried my USPSA production load in the M&P on Friday - it worked great and actually shot better out of the M&P -



Zero 147 JHP - 3.4grains of VVN320 - runs at about a 129PF



At 50 yards the M&P that I was testing would shoot under 4" with this load.
 

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Actually,



I was shooting my MP9 the other day and tried several combinations.



I have a Wolff steel rod made for Glocks, ISMI steel rod for Glocks and the MP steel factory rod. Ive also tried 13lb ISMI, stock factory SW, 12lb and 14lb Wolff springs w/ Wolff rod. With the Wolff rod, Wolff makes rounds springs, not flat wire.



After testing all of them, I actually like the factory spring and rod for reduced power loads, believe it or not. With the lightened springs (all types, ISMI, Wolff, Wolff rod, ISMI rod, etc), the flip is fine, but doesnt seem to settle the front sight back to where it started, it keeps the front sight kind of high out of the rear notch.



Now, Im not a new shooter. Ive been shooting for 13 years and a GM Limited shooter in USPSA. Ive taken several courses from the best GM's in the world and all have basically the same idea, you want your front sight to return to as close as possible to where it started.



When I shoot w/ the factory spring and rod, I get it to return to where it started.



Now the interesting part. The Glocks (as everyone knows) have a different grip angle than MP's, XD's, and 1911's, etc. With the Glocks, the lightened recoil springs work really well and return the front sight to where it started. When I tried this with an XD, it didnt work and kept the front sight high, like w/ the MP. After talking with a few top shooters who use XD's (I use CZ's in Prod) they advised you actually increase the recoil spring weight for XD's to get/make the sights track back correctly.



Now after shooting my MP and it doing basically the same thing, Im wondering if it has something to do w/ the grip angle and polymer guns. It doesnt apply when shooting 1911's w/ steel/metal frames, but with Prod guns w/ polymer frames and 1911 grip angles, it seems to be the case. But w/ the Glocks and their different grip angles, it doesnt apply.



I dont know, but there is something odd there. I'll keep shooting the MP and see what I can determine.



I'll try to keep you guys posted.
 
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