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Earlier this week, I received the Warren Tactical Rear Sight for the Smith & Wesson M&P .40 in my mailbox. I quickly opened the package, and found a very well made, finely finished piece of shooting equipment. The finish is very similar to that on my M&P, only slightly darker, which may be due to the busy year my pistol has had.



As a point of reference, here is my stock sight picture. These are the standard non-night sights.



The first step is to remove the existing sight. This can be done by backing out the set screw with a 1/16 inch Allen wrench.



Make sure to remove the sight by sliding it out to the right, as the dovetail in the slide is cut tapered. My sight came out pretty dry, so I had to tap it out with a small hammer. I didn't have any brass drifts nearby, so I used a lead bullet to keep from marring the finish on the slide and the old sight.

When you remove your sight, be careful, as there is a plunger spring and a disk retained by the sight.



If you are gentle, you should be able to retain everything and not need to crawl around on the floor, looking for the spring or the disk.

Next, verify that the set screw on your new sight is backed off, so that it won't interfere with the new sight being installed in the dovetail.

I personally found it easiest to get the disk and spring reinstalled under the sight by just starting the sight in to the dovetail, installing the spring and disk, and then sliding the sight over the disk to keep it from shooting in to the stratosphere.



The first impression that I got from the Sight is that the groove seems huge compared to the stock sight.



As you can see from the following photos, it actually isn't that much wider than the stock sight, but the design of it is far less distracting to the eye, and allows far more light to get in to to groove.



Warren rear sight width: .150 inches



Stock rear sight width: .141 inches



At any rate, this is a review of how this puppy works, not how to install it. So here it goes....

The gap seems absolutely HUGE compared to the stock sights. I think this is due to a few reasons.

First of all, the fact that there aren't 2 out of focus big white balls sucking in your attention. Secondly, the way the sight groove is designed, it gets a ton of light in between the rear post compared to stock. I will also be adding a skinny fiber optic front sight to my setup, just to encourage even more front sight focus.

Transitions are also much faster with the Warren sights over stock, due to the fact that there is a lot less target obscured by the rear posts, as you can see by the following picture:



As you are sweeping the pistol to the next target, it spends less time hidden by the sights. After shooting with these sights today, I would definitely recommend them to other shooters, especially if you are shooting IDPA or USPSA. Installation is easy, and the sight picture is simply awesome compared to OEM.
 

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Excellent job on the review, you went the extra mile to inform us on the details!
 

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Thanks a lot for the info, review, and most of all pics!


Nice job, glad you like the new sights.
 
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Nice. But so I take it that the standard rear sight "sucks" doesn't it? For tactical purposes at least.



How about night sights? Does warren sight have a night sight version?
 

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Eddo36 said:
Nice. But so I take it that the standard rear sight "sucks" doesn't it? For tactical purposes at least.



How about night sights? Does warren sight have a night sight version?
you're still stuck in the night sights on the rear aren't you? You want (maybe need) a rear sight that draws your eye TO the front sight, not distract you away from it. The 10-8 sight and this sight do that. Some say this one more than the 10-8 version. You will notice that both of these sights are available with your vision distracting glow in the dark inserts. Why, simple, because some people that read way too much guns and ammo think that is what is needed to survive a viloent encounter at night. Take you factory night sights and go into a nice dark closet. Hold the gun up and quickly tell which one is the front sight. Whether it is the pro's in IDPA/USPSA competition or the guys and gals who go into harms way on a daily basis and can be counted on for good information agree on something. They have a black rear sight and a front sight that they can find fast. Novaks have been the standard bearer of sights for a long time so no it doesn't "suck" but there are better alternatives. Can we please quit with posts like this?
 

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choochboost said:
The point of the warren sight, in part, is to get rid of the dots on the rear sight.
The point of the Warren sight is to quickly guide your eye to the all important front sight with the minimum of distractions. Period.
 

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Ledge, you did a great job on your review. I got mine today but so far cannot get my rear sight out.
 
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UPSguy said:
[quote name='Eddo36']Nice. But so I take it that the standard rear sight "sucks" doesn't it? For tactical purposes at least.



How about night sights? Does warren sight have a night sight version?
you're still stuck in the night sights on the rear aren't you? You want (maybe need) a rear sight that draws your eye TO the front sight, not distract you away from it. The 10-8 sight and this sight do that. Some say this one more than the 10-8 version. You will notice that both of these sights are available with your vision distracting glow in the dark inserts. Why, simple, because some people that read way too much guns and ammo think that is what is needed to survive a viloent encounter at night. Take you factory night sights and go into a nice dark closet. Hold the gun up and quickly tell which one is the front sight. Whether it is the pro's in IDPA/USPSA competition or the guys and gals who go into harms way on a daily basis and can be counted on for good information agree on something. They have a black rear sight and a front sight that they can find fast. Novaks have been the standard bearer of sights for a long time so no it doesn't "suck" but there are better alternatives. Can we please quit with posts like this?[/quote]



Quit with posts like what? Saying the standard night sights suck was an analytical opinion, and the reason that led me to believe the novaks "sucks" was that no one has yet stated any advantages the novak night sights have over the warren in a typical tactical situation. That's why it sucks based on the current analysis, until a novak advantage can be stated by someone in the near future to outweigh the warren.
 

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If "Novaks" truly sucked as you say they wouldn't be the standard that many put on their weapons from the factory. That there is something better (in some eyes, including mine) isn't the same thing as sucking. Another factor that one needs to remember is that NO, none, nada new fangled new and improved tactical wonder of the day will help you one bit in a moment of crisis. Realistic practice, training from a school know to teach sound principles and maybe even competing in events like IDPA/USPSA were you are under the pressure of the clock will do more good than buying a new sight.



Maybe one big advantage of the Novak that came with your gun is you can spend the same amount of money on more practice ammo. Instead of your posts that the manual sucks and the novak sucks that do nothing to help others here one little bit, why don't you do all a favor and take a moment and do some searchs on subjects that interest you. Take the time to figure out who has real world knowledge to share. Who has been at the head of the spear to protect us all, or who is kicking butt in the competition world. Seek out those kinds of people and actually read for comprehension what they have written.



I don't know if this is breaking a rule (sorry Jester if it is) but go to the 10-8 forums and read what real world hard users think. You will not be able to post there but there is great knowledge being shared their. A hint, our own David Bowie from this site is there too.



There is great information to be learned if one will take the time. Or, we can keep having posts like these "sucks" ones and nobody wins.
 

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Ok, question for warren users.



does the flat rear of the sight get scratched or dinged up easily? My burwell sight is getting zapped prety easily by... well SOMETHING, probably props I bump into while working on a stage. Not so sure what, but I'm about to buy stock in some cmpany that makes sight black.



I'm not sure which will be more distracting, scratched and gouged serrations or scratched and goughed flat metal. I'm thinking the rearwad slant might help some with that too.



I'm also thinkin i want pyramid style sights like on my 1911, and the warrens are the closest thing available.
 

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UPSguy said:
Take you factory night sights and go into a nice dark closet. Hold the gun up and quickly tell which one is the front sight.
UPSguy, I have a 10-8 rear waiting to be installed as soon as my compact arrives. I have considered getting it fitted with the smaller tritium inserts. I appreciate what you're saying but I have a question. In the dark closet with a complete set of NS, you could theoretically get confused determining which one is the front sight if the inserts were of the same color. But in the same dark closet with a NS front and plain rear, don't you run the same risk since you may see the front sight but not understand its position in relation to the rear since you can't see it?



Eddo, I second his recommendation to check out the 10-8 forums. It's good to ask questions, but it's also good to do a lot of reading as part of your research. You'll find answers to questions you never knew you had and you'll gain a lot more overall knowledge about firearms. Pound for pound, the 10-8 forum is one of the best to glean insight from IMO.



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choochboost said:
[quote name='UPSguy']Take you factory night sights and go into a nice dark closet. Hold the gun up and quickly tell which one is the front sight.
UPSguy, I have a 10-8 rear waiting to be installed as soon as my compact arrives. I have considered getting it fitted with the smaller tritium inserts. I appreciate what you're saying but I have a question. In the dark closet with a complete set of NS, you could theoretically get confused determining which one is the front sight if the inserts were of the same color. But in the same dark closet with a NS front and plain rear, don't you run the same risk since you may see the front sight but not understand its position in relation to the rear since you can't see it?



Eddo, I second his recommendation to check out the 10-8 forums. It's good to ask questions, but it's also good to do a lot of reading as part of your research. You'll find answers to questions you never knew you had and you'll gain a lot more overall knowledge about firearms. Pound for pound, the 10-8 forum is one of the best to glean insight from IMO.[/quote]IMO, I think if one has a gun they shoot well, and have practiced with it regularly and know that it points well for them, that the natural ability we are blessed with to point removes the worry about what way the gun is pointing with just the front dot. Boy, I am sure I lost many gramatical points on that sentence. The time allowed and distances involved should we ever need to use these in anger is going to eliminate precision shooting and sight alignment. The one dot out front and our ability to point is going to be the fastest setup (if we even have time to see that dot) The dots on the rear, whether dimmer, or a different color will only slow us down by causing our eye to see the rear sight first. One of my 1911s is back at RRAs and it had Heinie straight 8 sights. I am having the rear trinitrum vial replaced with a plain black Heinie. Again, this is just my opinion.



Then again, I think my setup with a TLR-2 is very fast.
 

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Mine too. That is why I cannot shoot a new Glock. The third series of frames and my hand just do not work together. I also have a form 4 pending for a intregally suppressed Ruger 22. I had it built on the 22/45 frame as that points just like a 1911 for me wereas the the original style frame 22s point way high.
 

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Great review ledge and also a good thread going here. I know a fair amount about guns, but will openly admit that I still have much to learn also. My last gun was a G27 that I have Trijicon night sights (NS) on. I liked it a lot and need to get something going on my new .40c. I always thought that the front AND rear NS was the way to go, but after reading this thread, I am questioning that choice. I can definitely see the validity of just the front sight being a NS. For me, as well as many of you, the M&P seems to be a pretty natural pointer
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This M&P is the first gun that I have owned that had the Novac sights on it, and I like them. The Warren Tactical Rear Sight looks like a very nice sight. Do others here also agree that it is a better rear sight for the M&P than the stock Novac sight? If I were to get one of the Warren Tactical Rear Sights, what NS would you put on the front? Is there anything available yet?



Thanks, Ron
 

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The S&W available front night sight would be fine, so would the one that Speed Shooter Specailties will make up for you. I also think the Hi Viz protected fiber optic front sight would be good. I posted a thread asking if Dan could make a gold dot with a trintrum vial in it. To me, that would be the best of both worlds. I have just posted my preliminary review of the Warren. I think the Warren or the 10-8 sight is a great improvment over the stock Novak. To me, the Novak is just plain too busy and distracting. With the number of Novak sights that have been sold obviously others disagree.
 

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Excuse me guys, but Im new to Pistol shooting. I was set on getting NS for my MP. However after reading this, it makes sense that if you can naturally point the gun, theres really no need for a rear sight being a NS to distract you. That being said, Im on a budget as Im sure many are. Seeing as how the "v" of the rear site on the stock piece isnt much different then the Warren, couldnt one simply fill in the stock dot pockets with say, super glue? Once they are filled in level, you could brush some black paint to blend them in? As a suggestion for light gathering, wouldnt it be wise to paint the valley white? You wont see this when shooting the gun, but it should help reflective light in the valley.



Ken
 
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