MP-Pistol Forum banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I work for a company with a no-gun rule. I do not mind being prohibited from carrying within the buildings, so I do not carry. Each building requires badge-access, and the qualifications to work here are stringent. That does not mean that intelligent people don't go crazy some times. It just means that I feel safe from outsiders coming in off the street.



The rule states that guns are not allowed on any of the company's property. It means that you are not allowed to lock your gun inside a safe and inside your car's trunk while you are parked at work. I have a problem with that. Right now, my gun is locked in my trunk, in my car, which I can see all day long. I brought it with me, against company policy, because I am going shooting at the range right after work. What if I lived 1 hour from work, and/or I had to drive through a bad neighborhood to get here?



Aside from occassional speeding, I follow the law. That's one reason I feel suitable to be one of the people who carries concealed. I also follow my company's policies, or I try to; I like my job. I know many will respond and say that it's not a big deal as long as you are never caught. While I may agree with you, in part, therre is still some risk and I still have a problem with this rule.



What would you do?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
106 Posts
Depending on what you mean by 'company', I would go ahead and lock it in my car and never tell a soul. Of course, in the event they somehow catch on (and unless you tell, how could they?) then you will have to live with the consequences. Their playground, their rules.



As for me, even locking a firearm in my car while I am at work is a federal offense unless I have written permission from the head administrator. Getting fired would be only one worry.



I play by the rules here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,507 Posts
I know WalMart is like that as I have a bunch of friends that work at one of their distribution centers. During hunting season they all bring their guns and park just off the property and catch a ride the rest of the way in. Managemnt actually does car searches from time to time. Talk about BS :roll:
 
F

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Check into what happened in Oklahoma

The Court in Oklahoma ruled against the employees that were fired by Weyerhaeuser for keeping firearms locked in their trunks in the Company parking lot.




So if I were you I would be very careful what I kept at work in my Auto or Truck when on their property.
 

·
Site Staff
Joined
·
9,612 Posts
Re: Check into what happened in Oklahoma

flanker said:
The Court in Oklahoma ruled against the employees that were fired by Weyerhaeuser for keeping firearms locked in their trunks in the Company parking lot.




So if I were you I would be very careful what I kept at work in my Auto or Truck when on their property.
That sucked, it was hard to believe the courts let that company get away with that, they really screwed their employees on that deal.




The problem in the Weyerhaeuser case was that they hadn't told the employees about the rule change, I don't recall how they found the guns, but since the employees hadn't been told of the rule change they should have let it go, and and just warned them. IMHO a firearm locked in your car isn't any threat to the company or it's employees.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Unfortunately if it's on their property they have the right to that rule. I'd love to see the law changed as I feel they are putting their employee at risk traveling to/from work.



They probably feel by having the rule it protects them from lawsuits in case some employee goes nuts and decides to go postal with their gun. At least they can argue they didn't allow employees to have weapons readily available. Like that will stop the nutcase.



I often wondered if an employee with a CCW could sue an employer if the employee went unarmed during their commute and was injured in a crime because they couldn't carry due to employer rules. Any lawyers here?



I'm glad so far my employer hasn't made an issue so far of this since I always have my pistol in my car for protection and for going to the range after work on occasion. If they did, I could at least park on the street. Since I'm IT I'm often alone in the building late at night, so on occasion I've actually brought it in the building if no one else is here.



You have to gauge the risk of your employer searching your vehicle. In any event just keep quiet if you do keep it in the car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
dragonlibra said:
Unfortunately if it's on their property they have the right to that rule. I'd love to see the law changed as I feel they are putting their employee at risk traveling to/from work.


I agree with you on both points. It is their property and they are entitled to have that rule. Today was the exception; I plan on leaving my gun at home when I am on company property.



I will not leave my gun in my car while parking off of company property all day long. At least I am parked in a very safe area now, and I can look out the window to watch my car. Parking in a public place (off company property) would leave my gun more susceptible to being stolen, so I won't do that.



As far as simply not telling anyone, that's easy, but someone could see me removing the gun from the holster and locking it in the trunk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,101 Posts
i think its an business owners right to bar weapons, but inside his property! Not in my trunk or glove box locked away, where i have no access to it!



and as far as searches, get a warrant, the constitution is against unfounded searches and seizes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Happily I am self employed, and almost always carry. Being in Real Estate I sometimes visit clients and have to lock my Smith in the trunk because I know they don't like guns, and I respect that fact. Since I primarily buy properties for myself, I can carry to my hearts content on all my properties, my office (my residence), and most places, (CCW permit)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
mad212 said:
i think its an business owners right to bar weapons, but inside his property! Not in my trunk or glove box locked away, where i have no access to it!



and as far as searches, get a warrant, the constitution is against unfounded searches and seizes.


Unfortunately employer's property rights trump your right to store gun in your vehicle when parked on employer's property.



Court Upholds Employer's Policy on Guns in Parking Lots



The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit has ruled that an Oklahoma employer was acting within its legal rights when it fired workers for violating its policy barring firearms in the company's parking lots.



In 2002, the Weyerhaeuser Company launched a sweep of its facility and parking lot because it had become concerned about substance abuse at its mill. During the sweep, security personnel uncovered firearms in several of the workers' vehicles parked in the employee parking lot. The company fired the workers for violating its policy barring firearms.



The fired workers filed a lawsuit, claiming wrongful discharge and a violation of their constitutional rights. A district court judge rejected the workers' arguments.



The workers then appealed to U.S. Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit, saying the lower court erred in "determining a private property owner-employer may impose restrictions upon the lawful keeping and transportation of firearms in locked vehicles parked in" the employee parking lot.



However, the appeals court rejected the workers' arguments as well. The appeals court ruled that the company was acting under the authority of a section of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when it fired the workers for violating its policy on firearms.




http://hr.blr.com/display.cfm/id/17825
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
The policy at my work also says no guns on the property...so I park 15 feet farther away on the street. Unfortunatly my station is IN the bad neighborhood...so there are a few of us (including the chief) that carry when off work. Unfortunatly it is not worth getting fired over.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,101 Posts
When they fired employees though, they had to have permission to search a vehicle, no? i couldn't imagine saying "sure rummage through my personal effects." If they wanna drug test me, by all means do it. Whats next corporations searching your home? I'm not going to lie i am very new into politics and law, i just woke up recently (decided to learn and act), but i will continue my research on civil rights and the people that violate it. I feel that alot of younger people like me, have no clue about our rights and whats going on. I hope to change that and maybe grab a feel of my buddies and make them wake up and take the red pill.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
Good luck enforcing the NRA thing or having a court defend it. Most companies have small print on their contracts, which is what youre signing on your first day, that allow them to search your stuff, including your car parked on their property, whenever they wish. Most dont do it at all, but still have it in your contract so they can cover their a$$es.



As for suing a company because a CHL holder got hurt, either on company grounds or during the commute, good luck there too. There are MANY cases where employees have been killed or seriously hurt on their employers grounds, during normal operating hours and they got nothing. Employers, much like the government, have no legal responsability to protect you from criminal activity. All they have to do is provide for the general safety of their employees from work related injury. The rest is all fluff. They will successfully argue that criminal behavior is unpredictable and they had no way of knowing when, where and how to protect you. The most telling case that I can remember is that of an NYC doctor who was raped and murdered in her hospital office. The story made 60 minues a long time ago. She caught someone faking injuries to get meds and had them kicked out of the hospital. Security did so all the while he was screaming about killing her. Same evening the same security guards see the same guy walking to the docs office. They did nothing. During the trial they admitted that they saw the guy, but had a brain fart so to speak. All parties in the suit were found not guilty.



In general your screwed when it comes to this kind of thing. Your employers and your government will do everything to protect themselves, including taking away every means at your disposal to protect yourself from harm. In the long run they could care less if you and your family got brutally murdered so long as their interests are protected. They willact all humble an dhurt, but they could give a $hit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
TAZ said:
...Employers, much like the government, have no legal responsability to protect you from criminal activity. All they have to do is provide for the general safety of their employees from work related injury...
I agree. However, it is too bad that companies inhibit our own efforts to protect ourselves. It is done so that they don't get sued, even if law-abiding citizens are killed as a result.

*edited to add:* Protection at work is only the tip of the iceberg. They are preventing our self defense for the drive to and from work, as well as at any place we must visit before returning home again. THAT is the frustrating part.



TAZ said:
...They will successfully argue that criminal behavior is unpredictable and they had no way of knowing when, where and how to protect you...
...and that directly supports WHY WE CARRY!!! I don't see these policies changing (for the better) at any time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
That link to the NRA about Parking Lot Gun Laws was hard to read...



The Oklahoma Legislature responded ... by prohibiting "any policy or rule" prohibiting law-abiding people "from transporting and storing firearms in a locked vehicle."


It says that the OK Legislature found the no-guns-in-cars policy to be unjust, right? Did I read that correctly?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
TAZ said:
Good luck enforcing the NRA thing or having a court defend it. Most companies have small print on their contracts, which is what you're signing on your first day, that allow them to search your stuff, including your car parked on their property, whenever they wish. Most don't do it at all, but still have it in your contract so they can cover their a$$es.


I can sign an employment contract that says it's okay for an employer to euthanize me too. It doesn't mean it's a legal document, or that the clause is legal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
Morphire said:
I can sign an employment contract that says it's okay for an employer to euthanize me too. It doesn't mean it's a legal document, or that the clause is legal.


Dont get me wrong, I agree with you completely, however, I am willing to bet my left testicle on who the courts will side with in the event that you are willing to loose your job and spend a small fortune challenging the law. Remember, legal, just, right and al that old fashioned stuff have very little to do with the current system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
TAZ said:
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you completely, however, I am willing to bet my left testicle on who the courts will side with in the event that you are willing to loose your job and spend a small fortune challenging the law. Remember, legal, just, right and al that old fashioned stuff have very little to do with the current system.


Sad but you also make a good point. Being right is only part of the issue. Being willing and able to fight to prove that you're right is the rest of it. I'm glad I own my own company! =]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
mad212 said:
When they fired employees though, they had to have permission to search a vehicle, no? i couldn't imagine saying "sure rummage through my personal effects." If they wanna drug test me, by all means do it. Whats next corporations searching your home? I'm not going to lie i am very new into politics and law, i just woke up recently (decided to learn and act), but i will continue my research on civil rights and the people that violate it. I feel that alot of younger people like me, have no clue about our rights and whats going on. I hope to change that and maybe grab a feel of my buddies and make them wake up and take the red pill.


How about the doofus employer's who can fire you for smoking off the job. Yes, they can do that. Now, I'm anti-smoking in public buildings - but dang even this non-smoker says that is too dang far. BTW, if some tee-totaler employer wanted they could bar you from having a beer off-the-job as well. All they have to do is tell you that's now the policy.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top