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Discussion Starter #1
First, I hope someone from S&W reads this.



By nearly all accounts the one thing that everyone agrees on is that the trigger, specifically the reset, on the M&P is sub-optimal; thus making many $$ for Burwell and Bowie (good on 'em
). I think, however, that if the M&P is to make serious inroads into the law enforcement community, the trigger feel/reset is going to need to be tweaked. Most LEO agencies absolutely prohibit ANY monkeying around with internals. With all respect to Burwell and Bowie, I wonder if Smith will start offering either trigger work from the Performance Center or, offering a PC model with an enhanced trigger. Either way, you still have a "factory" trigger but with enhanced functionality.





Anybody got a different take on this?
 

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The factory M&P trigger is better than the trigger on many other issued guns to LEO. I don't see a problem there.
 

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YukonGlocker said:
The factory M&P trigger is better than the trigger on many other issued guns to LEO. I don't see a problem there.


+1 and adding, one of the PC guys did up his own M&P and from what I heard the trigger is fantastic. Can't wait until I see him.



Regards,
 

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In my humble opinion the biggest problem with the M&P box stock trigger is the firing pin

saftey plunger/trigger bar when you get those 2 things polished up. 90% of the grittyness in the trigger will be gone. For a leo i would dry fire a lot!! To burnish those to parts together

then find the slickest lude i could get my hands on and lube those to parts as best as i can.

I tried brownells ALP on mine before i did a trigger job on mine ,worked better than clp

maybe some knows of a better lube than ALP.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I will concede that the trigger pull on most factory duty-type pistols are not ideal. With that said trigger control/manipulation is arguably the most critical factor on accurate shooting and being able to efficiently manage the reset is critical when shooting at speed. Glock is the preeminent LEO pistol at this time. While the Glock trigger is not perfect by any means, it DOES have a distinct reset which is a great feature when one understands how to manage that. The M&P, in contrast, has a more indistinct reset. I'm saying all this to say that IMHO, to the extent that S&W will offer a trigger as good as, or better than the Glock, then S&W can take LEO market share from Glock. But it will have to be offered by the factory as opposed to independent gunsmiths. YMMV.
 

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http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/JARRETT4/jarrett4.html



"The key thing is never try to go to reset when shooting any type of mechanical trigger. You will find that you will be able to shoot any product on the market built today or tomorrow."



"So as you press that shot let your finger come off the trigger each and every time and you will have better luck with speed and accuracy."



All the grittyness left my trigger after about 300 rounds of nothing but shooting. The trigger is good; not great, not horrible, but good. I'd rather have technique which allows me to pick up any handgun and hit a 4" circle at 25 yds, than having a technique which allows me to place 15 rounds within a 1/2" circle at 25 yds with my gun, and only my gun.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I've seen a discussion about this technique. It apparently works well for those who are able to shoot all day every day, i.e., professional shooters. Most LEO certainly do NOT fall in that category. Current doctrine among LEO firearms trainers is, use the reset. FWIW, Glock emphasizes the use of the rest in their courses as well.



PS. If I'm able to shoot 15 rounds into a 1/ 2" at 25 yards with only my gun, I'd be feeling pretty good. :twisted:
 

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Even though police firearms trainers may teach the reset, I doubt that many officers shooting maybe a couple of hundred rounds or less in practice a year actually use it. Shooting off the reset is something that must be practiced because in my experience it is a very perishable skill.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Soooo, coming off the trigger completely, essentially slapping the trigger, is a better trigger technique for a "two boxes a year" shooter? Frankly, I don't find working the reset all that difficult or tricky. But it does help if the reset is firm and distinct.



Which brings me back to the point of the original post which is, it seems to me that if one way or another S&W would offer a better trigger from the factory, they would have higher sales in law enforcement. It appears, however, that this seems to be a minority opinion. Which is interesting given the amount of comments/complaints on this board regarding various negative aspects of the trigger and the apparent amount of work these problems have generated for Mr. Burwell and Mr. Bowie.



Regards.
 

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Yep, TJ does teach the trigger slap, a controlled trigger slap. If one does it consistently like he does, one can get good result just like TJ. I believe the Rogers Shooting School teaches a method call the flip and press, another form of controlled trigger slap.
 

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Bloodnut said:
Soooo, coming off the trigger completely, essentially slapping the trigger, is a better trigger technique for a "two boxes a year" shooter? Frankly, I don't find working the reset all that difficult or tricky. But it does help if the reset is firm and distinct.



Which brings me back to the point of the original post which is, it seems to me that if one way or another S&W would offer a better trigger from the factory, they would have higher sales in law enforcement. It appears, however, that this seems to be a minority opinion. Which is interesting given the amount of comments/complaints on this board regarding various negative aspects of the trigger and the apparent amount of work these problems have generated for Mr. Burwell and Mr. Bowie.



Regards.


No, I don't believe slapping the trigger is a better technique than using the reset but reality is that most shooters tend to slap the trigger in one form or another. If you don't believe me go to a range and watch people as they shoot, in many cases they slap the trigger in differing degrees. Trigger slap is a technique used by professional shooters and those that practice to the degree that makes it work for them.



No, I don't believe that trigger reset will be a big issue in whether the M&P or any other firearm for that matter will be adopted by a police dept.



Personally I shoot off the reset and have had my M&P modified by Dan to make the reset more positive. I am sure many folks on this forum use the reset also but the average shooter or policeman probably does not.
 

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Bloodnut said:
Soooo, coming off the trigger completely, essentially slapping the trigger, is a better trigger technique for a "two boxes a year" shooter? Frankly, I don't find working the reset all that difficult or tricky. But it does help if the reset is firm and distinct.



Which brings me back to the point of the original post which is, it seems to me that if one way or another S&W would offer a better trigger from the factory, they would have higher sales in law enforcement. It appears, however, that this seems to be a minority opinion. Which is interesting given the amount of comments/complaints on this board regarding various negative aspects of the trigger and the apparent amount of work these problems have generated for Mr. Burwell and Mr. Bowie.



Regards.


If I were using my M&P Only for duty use, the stock trigger is great for me. Glocks have never felt right in my hand but the M&P does. Since I use my M&P for other purposes and I am willing to spend my own dime for practice ammo and the work on the action, that is what I do.





With people I have trained, the prevalent attitude is give it to me, give me some ammo to qualify, and leave me alone. As long as there are minimum standards for qualification pretty much any firearm will do.



Also, S&W seems to be growing their market share in LE since they came out with the M&P.



Regards,
 

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Trigger slap is taught by many instructors, including TJ and, so I've heard, Rob Leatham. I also know several pros who shoot by just moving forward enough to reset the trigger. Andy Stanford and James Yeager (for most intents and purposes) both teach students to just reset the trigger. Opinions and methods vary. Me, I've always felt I had better trigger control by just resetting the trigger.
 
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