[rlmxracer]

I was thinkin this would be a great way to round out their lineup. 12ga (of course), adjustable stock (ala the black rifle). What do you guys and gals think?

 

[bbbdvan81]

im with ya 100%. i want a 18" barrell, pump action with at least 7 rounds. something in the vein of a 870 or a 590. instead of a collapsable stock, i would prefer a speedfeed or hogue rubber stock. oh and it needs a heatshield.

 

[Walker]

I agree...

 

[sholling]

I'd rather see them rebrand something exactly like this.

http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/index.tpl

Close up view... http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/...000-synthPG.jpg

 

[Fallschirmjäger]

Receiver shaped to accept an M4 stock without an adaptor; with the right stock you could have your choice of folding, collapsing or SpeedFeed.



Safety reversible for either hand.



Full length, or at least receiver length Picatinney rails.



Barrel designed for easy replacement with different lengths.



Magazine tube designed the same way as barrel. (I wouldn't object to a box magazine feed though, the Valtro PM5 comes to mind)

What I'd really want though, is a domestically produced Neostead. I'm an admitted bullpup junkie.

Ok, ok, ok....what I really, Really, REALLY want is.....

 

[sholling]

Fallschirmjäger,



A bunch of years ago I freaked out a Mossberg rep when I nailed 5 for 5 clay pidgins with one of their bullpups. Admittedly I was right next to the thrower but he swore it couldn't be done. 8)

 

[Fallschirmjäger]

I've used this on clays, but I didn't do very well. Someone else, an enthusiast did Much better - - -

Yes, the floor is dirty, it was the day after Christmas and we had the dogs in, company over and the tree was being taken down.

 

[101Combat Vet]

those look sweeeeeeeet

 

[DHunter]

Personally I'm quite happy with the little black shoty I already have.

 

[ArnisAndyz]

It would make sense for S&W to put together a Defensive AND Competition Shotgun. The competition gun (for 3 gun) most likely would be a Semiauto, 22" barrel 8+1 with chokes to fit into Limited/Tactical division and be modifiable for Open. Jerry Mickeleck, a S&W sponsored shooter, shoots 3 gun. He's using S&W Pistols, not sure if his AR is an M&P though, and I think he is using a modified Remington 1100. It would nice to have your sponsored shooter shooting your guns rather than another brand.

 

[FieroCDSP]

Nice Saiga, DHunter. 20guage or 12?

 

[ToddG]

Shotguns are going the way of the pistol-caliber long gun and the dodo, at least from a tactical standpoint. The shotgun still has its supporters and no question it's a devastatingly effective weapon, but whether it's cool points or functionality, the AR/M4 platform is steamrolling over it for LE and military applications.

 

[101Combat Vet]

Shotguns are going the way of the pistol-caliber long gun and the dodo, at least from a tactical standpoint. The shotgun still has its supporters and no question it's a devastatingly effective weapon, but whether it's cool points or functionality, the AR/M4 platform is steamrolling over it for LE and military applications.

I agree if the target is 20 feet away. But a tactical shotgun will always look sweet I am mad at myself for getting rid of my mossy 500 and look at her shes a friggin machine...











prrrrr kitty kitty prrr 8)

 

[ToddG]

Don't get me wrong, I think a shotgun is an excellent home defense weapon and incredibly versatile all-around long arm. It's just hard to come up with practical tactical considerations it addresses better than a well set-up 5.56mm carbine.

 

[101Combat Vet]

Don't get me wrong, I think a shotgun is an excellent home defense weapon and incredibly versatile all-around long arm. It's just hard to come up with practical tactical considerations it addresses better than a well set-up 5.56mm carbine.

I am so torn as to building my first ebr (thnx kris :wink: ) I am leaning towards an ar-10 just cuz I like a little bit more.... I have said it b4 everyone of 13 has got a pretty good clue as to what a 12 gauge sounds like being racked so I love that intimidation factor that would definitly stop a bg in his tracks...after my two dogs opened the door for him 8)

 

[DHunter]

Nice Saiga, DHunter. 20guage or 12?

It's a 12ga

 

[rlmxracer]

I have been hearing a lot of talk about ARs & M4s for home defense, but I would think a round going 3000+fps would go right through walls no matter how light the bullet. Do they make rounds for home defense that would not risk colateral damage?

 

[sholling]

101Combat Vet,

pretty good clue as to what a 12 gauge sounds like being racked so I love that intimidation factor

I've had the misfortune of being a good guy that's looked down the barrel of a 12ga from about 5-6 feet. Trust me when I say that from my vantage point that 12 bore looked like a fricken railroad tunnel!

rlmxracer,

I would think a round going 3000+fps would go right through walls no matter how light the bullet. Do they make rounds for home defense that would not risk colateral damage?

That's what I would have thought but according to (IF I remember correctly) SD TV the .223 loses more of its lethality than a 00 buck pellet when going through walls, and much more of its lethality than a pistol bullet. I personally have no clue. But Todd can without a doubt address this better than I can. Especially since my memory is fuzzy and he teaches this stuff. Hmmmm I'll look later to see if I still have the recording.



I compromise and keep a 20" 12ga Benelli M1 S90 with 2rds of #4 buck (I like my neighbors) followed by five of 00, plus five 437gr 1610fps 12ga HydraShoks on the stock. Escalating levels of capability should the sight of me sporting bed-head and a shotgun not scare them off in its own. And I also refuse to ever be caught in the embarrassing situation of being short of ammunition again.



:wink:

 

[ToddG]

The landmark scientific work that dispelled the myth of the 5.56mm as a dangerous choice for CQB was done by the FBI, and SSA Buford Boone in particular. While no one considers any adequately lethal projectile as "safe" inside a modern structure, the 5.56mm tends to penetrate interior building materials less than heavier projectiles such as pistol rounds, shotgun slugs, etc.



I always kept #4 Tactical in my 12g when it was my bedside long arm. However, Rob Haught -- considered by many to be one of the best tactical shotgun instructors in the world -- frequently advocated a series of different loadings sort of like sholling mentioned. I cannot recall Rob's specific "recipe" but it was something like:

• 2-3 rounds of birdshot, which at normal indoor distances is still deadly but least likely to overpenetrate people & walls
  
• followed by 2-3 rounds of buckshot, which is going to give you greater range and penetration
  
• followed by slugs, which obviously give you the best range, accuracy, and penetration
  • 
    
    
    
    The thought process was, if the first few rounds don't finish the fight, the fight probably requires the heavier loads. But if it's just a typical intruder scenario, a round or two of birdshot in the chest at near point blank range is going to kill just about anyone.

 

[ArnisAndyz]

My current bedside long gun is a Remington 1187 Youth 20 gauge loaded with #3 buck. Its fast handling, low recoiling and lays down plenty enough lead to get the job done. As an added bonus, my wife can handle this gun easily compared to the 12 gauge pump. Gun experts like Masad Ayoob and Ken Hackathorn have long endorsed the 20 as a viable home defensive gun.



I've been using this same gun in 3 gun competitions and it takes the pepper poppers down with authority, it has never left me lacking for power. Spits and transitions are fast due to the light weight and low recoil and reloads are easier for me... I can fit 4 shells (vs 3 of the 12) in my little hands and load weak hand pretty quickly. The action of the 20 seems to cycle very crisply also (lighter reciprocal movement?)



I hesitate to use my AR for home defense. I have a compensator on it and the blast would make everyone in the house deaf!