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I contacted Smith and Wesson a few days ago and requested that their research and development department look into creating a small single stack or double stack sub compact 9mm in the size range of a Kahr PM9. I told them that non American companies had to meet strict import standards for the size of their guns and American companies are exempt from those restrictions. Keltec is an OK firearm for the price. Kahrs are very expension and are not consistently as reliable as a Glock 26, XD9 SC, or S&W M&P 9c. If Smith designed a 9mm about the same dimensions as Kahr PM9 (lengthxwidthxheight) in the same price range as the M&P 9c they would take over the market. I would even like to see a thin grip double stack (8-10) rounds. Single stack would be fine, though to assure extreme concealability. If each person who agrees with me contacted Smith and Wesson and made the same request they would be forced to at least look into the idea. Please help me with this attempt to have them design the ultimate concealed 9mm weapon at an affordable price.

Glock, Springfield,Walther(they attempted with the PPS although it is as long as a Glock 26 and has a high profile), and all the other foreign companies cannot compete so S&W is the only large domestic company capable of this venture while retaining very high quality at a consumer friendly price. Feel free to help with suggestions and contacting S&W please.
 

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Technically, isn't the new walther PPS slim compact single stack the S&W entry in this field? With that short a barrel it has to be being made in the US, and Smith ahs been doing that for their other guns.
 

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The overall length of the PPS is almost exactly equal to that of the Glock 26. While it likely is and will be an excellent gun, once the initial kinks are worked out of it, it still has a high profile and 6.3" length which makes it much too large for the possibilty of a confortable pocket holster. The size of the Kahr PM9 enables it to be hidden easily and if the Smith, Glock, or Springfield shootability were incorporated it would blow the PPS away. Some 9mm's such as the Rorbaugh(spelling?) have great concealability but one cannot shoot it regularly and count on it's usage and accuracy out to 10 yards or more. Essentially what I would like to see is a Glock 26 performance in a Kahr PM9 size package. The best of both worlds!!!
 

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I would love to see them downsize the design of the M&P into a single stack .380 for backup or for a pocket gun that was close to the size of a P3AT.
 

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gunnery said:
The overall length of the PPS is almost exactly equal to that of the Glock 26. While it likely is and will be an excellent gun, once the initial kinks are worked out of it, it still has a high profile and 6.3" length which makes it much too large for the possibilty of a confortable pocket holster. The size of the Kahr PM9 enables it to be hidden easily and if the Smith, Glock, or Springfield shootability were incorporated it would blow the PPS away. Some 9mm's such as the Rorbaugh(spelling?) have great concealability but one cannot shoot it regularly and count on it's usage and accuracy out to 10 yards or more. Essentially what I would like to see is a Glock 26 performance in a Kahr PM9 size package. The best of both worlds!!!


The difference between a khar P-9 and the walther is half an inch. Since you can get a higher grip on the PPS, I'm guessing it recoils much nicer than the kahr p9, which I really don't like very much.
 

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raz-0 said:
The difference between a khar P-9 and the walther is half an inch. Since you can get a higher grip on the PPS, I'm guessing it recoils much nicer than the kahr p9, which I really don't like very much.
Being the owner of a PM40 I can tell you that the recoil of my little pocket howitzer is seriously un-fun. But the dang thing sure gives a sense of security.
 

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raz-0 said:
[quote name='gunnery']The overall length of the PPS is almost exactly equal to that of the Glock 26. While it likely is and will be an excellent gun, once the initial kinks are worked out of it, it still has a high profile and 6.3" length which makes it much too large for the possibilty of a confortable pocket holster. The size of the Kahr PM9 enables it to be hidden easily and if the Smith, Glock, or Springfield shootability were incorporated it would blow the PPS away. Some 9mm's such as the Rorbaugh(spelling?) have great concealability but one cannot shoot it regularly and count on it's usage and accuracy out to 10 yards or more. Essentially what I would like to see is a Glock 26 performance in a Kahr PM9 size package. The best of both worlds!!!


The difference between a khar P-9 and the walther is half an inch. Since you can get a higher grip on the PPS, I'm guessing it recoils much nicer than the kahr p9, which I really don't like very much.[/quote]



Here's a couple of links to photo's from our friends at www.gunblast.com showing the size of the PPS, PM9 and PF9. I've owned all three and the PM9 is the winner in the size department. The short grip is way, way, way easy to pocket. The PPS is NOT a pocket pistol unless you wear clown pants. The winner in accuracy is the the PPS and the winner in price is the PF9.



I'd look at a S&W pocket 9 if they made one the size of the Kahr and actually got it to feed consistently



http://www.gunblast.com/images/Kahr-PM9/DSC02416.jpg



http://www.gunblast.com/images/Kahr-PM9/DSC02417.jpg



BTW, these pictures show PPS - PM9 - PF9
 

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S&W already makes a pocket gun it's called a J-frame. I just wish it came in 9mm again with an aluminum/titanium frame this time.



Seriously though, I have the PM9 and it's recoil isn't bad. Mine has been 100% reliable so far. While I'd love to see a pocket auto from S&W but I doubt they want to eat into their pocket revolver market.
 

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I have been looking hard at the j frame for a pocket carry. I compared the fullsize mp with a compact glock(23) and they were pretty close in size, and the compact mp is pretty similar to the subcompact glock. Is it possible to make the m&p and smaller with out going single stack?
 

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nightshade said:
S&W already makes a pocket gun it's called a J-frame. I just wish it came in 9mm again with an aluminum/titanium frame this time.




If it came in 9mm, I would have picked one up. Did you say again? Does that means I may still be able to find a used one? FWIW, I don't want to shoot or pay for .357 ammo and .38 (even +P) doesn't fit my "mission criteria".
 
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