With a bunch of Gun shows coming up I thought I would share this little story. I work in Hand Rehab (hand inguries,etc) and last year I had a guy come in with a gun shot wound to the hand. I have had a couple in my life time, but this on was a little different. The person was was at a gun show and was looking at a gun at one of the counters, it was a .22. I am not to sure how it was secured, but when he picked it up and looked at it for some reason he pulled the trigger. The gun went off and the bullet went through his finger and into the wall behind the guy at the counter. The guy with the finger has been around guns all his life and does not know why he pulled the trigger, brain fart, but the scary thing is that the gun made it through with one in the pipe. TREAT EVERY GUN AS IF IT WAS LOADED!!!!!
Safety at Gun Shows
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jaybird said:
Couldn't tell you how many customers I've had take their guns out, point them towards me, and ask my questions about them. "You got a holster for something like this?"
I take them out of their hands, one way or another...I get the "oh, it's not loaded". About half of the time there's ammo in the mag, some of the time there's a round chambered. Then i ask myself, are there that many people carrying without a round chambered? Or are these people so stupid that they take a round out of the chamber, then point the loaded gun at me, like they were planning on doing this?
I keep hearing the "well, it wasn't chambered" or "well, the safety was on", sometimes it's the "oh sorry, my fault" As if there's an actual reason why you should be pointing a gun at someone, and not even thinking about clearing it...
People are stupid...don't trust anyone who tells you a gun is empty.
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synergy said:
Purely semantics; yes you always treat all guns as if they are loaded, but even after you have visually checked it unloaded you still treat it as though it is loaded. Unless the action is open/slide is locked back, to me it is loaded. It is the precise reason you dont practice dryfiring at your buddy's chest. You know it is not loaded, but there is always a chance so you dryfire in a secure direction.
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Bingo. Safeties are excuses that people use to justify breaking the rules of firearm safety.synergy said:
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I agree 100%tigs40cal said:
I agree 100%[/quote]101Combat Vet said:
I think you'd get fired after you shot your second customer...
There's a fine line to walk. I take manual control of guns very fast when the come out....I've yet to have anyone struggle with me when I stripped their gun out their hand. Doing it on the range with an obviously loaded gun and someones finger on the trigger, I messed up someones hand pretty good once getting the muzzle back downrange. That's something they wont forget.
Someone is getting the fight brought to them once they resist me redirecting a muzzle. Before then...you kinda have to go about things peacefully. If I punched everyone in the face who swept me with their muzzle, just on general principle...I'd be out a job, and probably have a few assault charges to boot.
I'm quite sure I've set some kind of standing broad jump record at the range when someone has been a little too casual about muzzle awareness. Some people sheepishly apologize, and some have even become angry at me for "making them look bad." Well, to me it's like if a woman puts on a pair of jeans and asks, "do these make me look fat?" The jeans don't make her look fat, the excess fat cells in her butt and thighs make her look fat.
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If you do something stupid with a gun, expect to have people treat you like you're stupid.
I'm not going to stand there just because I'm pretty sure your gun is unloaded. It's such a simple fracking rule.
But I agree with synergy, you can't just pounce on anyone who points a gun at you in a non-hostile environment. If you think hitting them is justified, then you think shooting them is justified ... who here wants our local public range to turn into the O.K. Corral? If you spend enough time around enough people with guns, you will get muzzled. It's happened to me at matches and at classes, by private citizens, cops, and military folks. I treat every instance as an extremely bad social faux pas, because in my experience such people are more sensitive to that than "you broke a safety rule." You can't get past the my safety is my trigger finger or the only safety I need is between my ears types, but no one wants to be called rude & unprofessional.
If you think a gun show is bad, try working for a gun company ... I can't tell you how many times I've been in a room full of executives (none of whon have fired a pistol in the past few years) waving some new prototype around with zero regard to basic safety. The first such meeting I attended was at Beretta and I was actually chastised for my "over-reaction" to what "everyone knew was an unloaded gun." I had simply pushed my chair back about 8" when the engineer came in with a new pistol, mag in and slide forward, and pointed it at my head. Silly me.
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If you do something stupid with a gun, expect to have people treat you like you're stupid.
I'm not going to stand there just because I'm pretty sure your gun is unloaded. It's such a simple fracking rule.
But I agree with synergy, you can't just pounce on anyone who points a gun at you in a non-hostile environment. If you think hitting them is justified, then you think shooting them is justified ... who here wants our local public range to turn into the O.K. Corral? If you spend enough time around enough people with guns, you will get muzzled. It's happened to me at matches and at classes, by private citizens, cops, and military folks. I treat every instance as an extremely bad social faux pas, because in my experience such people are more sensitive to that than "you broke a safety rule." You can't get past the my safety is my trigger finger or the only safety I need is between my ears types, but no one wants to be called rude & unprofessional.
If you think a gun show is bad, try working for a gun company ... I can't tell you how many times I've been in a room full of executives (none of whon have fired a pistol in the past few years) waving some new prototype around with zero regard to basic safety. The first such meeting I attended was at Beretta and I was actually chastised for my "over-reaction" to what "everyone knew was an unloaded gun." I had simply pushed my chair back about 8" when the engineer came in with a new pistol, mag in and slide forward, and pointed it at my head. Silly me.
I've had guns pointed at me in non hostile enviroments (range, gun shows etc.) I'm not saying would punch or shoot them (though I want to sometimes) but there has to be no tolerance when it comes to gun saftey,thats all I'm trying to get across :wink:
Oregon has some pretty strict and tight gun show rules.
These are only the first 3 taken from
http://collectorswest.com/ Rules
All transactions must take place INSIDE the building. NO EXCEPTIONS
No loaded firearms, magazines or speed loaders allowed, with the exception of law enforcement and private security officers in contract with C.W.I.
ALL FIREARMS MUST HAVE THEIR ACTIONS TIED OPEN.
Where that is impractical due to design the action MUST be tied to make it inoperable and conspicuous by visual inspection.
All detached magazines MUST be removed from a firearm before it is placed on a table
And there was more police walking around than there is downtown portland.
These are only the first 3 taken from
http://collectorswest.com/ Rules
All transactions must take place INSIDE the building. NO EXCEPTIONS
No loaded firearms, magazines or speed loaders allowed, with the exception of law enforcement and private security officers in contract with C.W.I.
ALL FIREARMS MUST HAVE THEIR ACTIONS TIED OPEN.
Where that is impractical due to design the action MUST be tied to make it inoperable and conspicuous by visual inspection.
All detached magazines MUST be removed from a firearm before it is placed on a table
And there was more police walking around than there is downtown portland.
My understanding is that the gun had went through a gun check with the local police department at the door. It was secured in some way I just can not remember why the slide was closed, or how. Another interesting thing was that the people in charge of the gun show called once while this guy was in the hospital and that was it. His medical bills where a fair amount and he had to foot the bill. Do you think that the gun show or the person that was presenting the gun should be held liable?
Some ****** shot himself at our large gun show out in Pittsburgh so now they have them in local ice rinks instead which really sucks (I'm assuming the old ExpoMart doesn't want them for Liability reasons and maybe the idiot that shot himself tried to sue them for his Darwinisim)
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MTech said:
That does suck. I couldn't imagine skating from booth to booth -- I am not very good on ice skates at all.
:wink:
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yep
that would suck..
At our gun shows you have to check your firearms at the door, they then place a tywrap through the action..
Most of the dealers either have them the same way or have cabling going through them, can't recall ever being able to pick one up and squeeze the trigger.. i'll have to pay more attention next show..
my brother had a horrific accident and lost most of his right hand, but that involved black powder and smokeless powder..
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Mouse
that would suck..
At our gun shows you have to check your firearms at the door, they then place a tywrap through the action..
Most of the dealers either have them the same way or have cabling going through them, can't recall ever being able to pick one up and squeeze the trigger.. i'll have to pay more attention next show..
my brother had a horrific accident and lost most of his right hand, but that involved black powder and smokeless powder..
Mouse
synergy said:
I witnessed a fella pull out his gun in a local gunshop, the owner asked if it was loaded, he showed the owner it did not have a round chambered by pulling back the slide and letting him inspect.... He then released the slide................. not even thinking, THIS IDIOT CHAMBERED A ROUND
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