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Discussion Starter #1
http://rawstory.com/news/afp/_Shoot_first_...f_10272007.html



'Shoot first' laws make it tougher for burglars in the United States



Published: Saturday October 27, 2007



Burglars in the United States could once sue homeowners if they were shot, but now a growing number of states have made it legal to shoot to kill when somebody breaks into a house.



John Woodson, 46, found that out last week when he ambled into Dennis Baker's open garage in a Dallas suburb. A surveillance video showed the robber strolling inside, hands in his pockets.



From the shadows, Baker opened fire and killed Woodson.



"I just had to protect myself and that was it," Baker told reporters despite the fact Woodson had not tried to enter the bedroom near the garage where Baker had been sleeping.



The incident made national headlines since it was Baker's parrot that gave the alarm when it innocently squawked "good morning" at the intruder.



But Woodson's death seemed anecdotal compared to another Dallas resident who a few days earlier had killed his second robber in three weeks inside his home.



Police are investigating both cases, but it is unlikely charges will be filed. Texas recently passed a law branding anybody breaking into a home or car as a real threat of injury or death to its occupants.



In contrast with traditional self-defense laws, this measure does not require that a person who opens fire on a burglar be able to prove that he or she was physically threatened, that force was used only as a last resort and that the victim had first tried to hide.



Florida was the first state to adopt in 2005 a law that was dubbed "Stand your ground" or "Shoot first."



But now they have proliferated largely under pressure from the powerful National Rifle Association (NRA), the main weapons lobby in the United States.



Today 19 out of 50 US states, mostly in the south and the central regions of the country, have this kind of laws, and similar legislation is pending in about a dozen others.



"This law will bring common-sense self-defense protections to law-abiding citizens," said Rachel Parsons, a spokesperson for the NRA.



"If someone is breaking into your home, it's obvious that they are not there to have dinner with you," she continued. "You do have a right to protect your belongings, your family and yourself.



"The law needs to be put on the side of the victim, and not on the side of the criminal, who is attacking the victim."



But for the Freedom States Alliance that fights against the proliferation of firearms in the United States, these new laws attach more value to threatened belongings than to the life of the thief and only serve to increase the number of people killed by firearms each year, which currently is estimated to stand at nearly 30,000.



"It's that whole Wild West mentality that is leading the country down a very dangerous path," said Sally Slovenski, executive director of the alliance.



"In any other country, something like the castle doctrine or stand-your-ground laws look like just absolute lunacy," she continued.



"And yet in this country, somehow it's been justified, and people just sort of have come to live with this, and they just don't see the outrage in this."



According to Federal Bureau of Investigation, there were 2.18 million burglaries to the United States in 2006, up 1.3 percent compared to the year before.



But the number is still well below the 3.24 million burglaries a year committed 20 years ago
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I love it. Also known as "stand your ground law". I guess it's being considered here in Arizona but has not yet passed. Burglars should know that if they go into a house with armed owners they can be shot and killed.
 

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I don't care if the as*holes break into my house to steal a $1 bill on the counter, they need to know the consequence for their actions can be an instant death penality. It's about time the law defends the victim not the criminal. There's no doubt in my mind that anyone who breaks into my house will have about five .40 caliber hollowpoints in them before they fall down.
 

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I'm a LEO in a state where similar legislation has just been made into law, and I fully support the idea. I work so many burglaries at work that it's sickening. I have always felt that to enter a persons home is a violation of their most intimate, and private place. It's psychological effect on victims is unbeleivable.



I can honestly say that although a loss of any human life is a tragedy, I'd rather the law side with the victim than with the criminal who has zero regard for anyone other than their own lazy @%! because they lack the ambition and motivation to hold a job and support themselves.



Kudos to my own state and to any other that is finally taking steps to ensure that a life of crime is as hazardous for it's practitioners as humanly possible!
 

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I support it...
 

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If they are going to rob your house while your're home I think they've got other things in mind. I live in a state that has Castle Doctrine Law...however if you shoot someone you're still probably going to jail or at least gonna be sued.
 

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Re: 'Shoot first' laws make it tougher for burglars in the U

Steelshooter said:
"In any other country, something like the castle doctrine or stand-your-ground laws look like just absolute lunacy," she continued.



"And yet in this country, somehow it's been justified, and people just sort of have come to live with this, and they just don't see the outrage in this."


God Bless America



 

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Discussion Starter #8
I'm pretty sure at least some of the laws prevent you from being sued.



Fire1 said:
If they are going to rob your house while your're home I think they've got other things in mind. I live in a state that has Castle Doctrine Law...however if you shoot someone you're still probably going to jail or at least gonna be sued.
 

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Re: 'Shoot first' laws make it tougher for burglars in the U

Her statement is not true at all.



ToddG said:
[quote name='Steelshooter']"In any other country, something like the castle doctrine or stand-your-ground laws look like just absolute lunacy," she continued.



"And yet in this country, somehow it's been justified, and people just sort of have come to live with this, and they just don't see the outrage in this."


God Bless America



[/quote]
 

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Re: 'Shoot first' laws make it tougher for burglars in the U

ToddG said:
[quote name='Steelshooter']"In any other country, something like the castle doctrine or stand-your-ground laws look like just absolute lunacy," she continued.



"And yet in this country, somehow it's been justified, and people just sort of have come to live with this, and they just don't see the outrage in this."


God Bless America



[/quote]





Right on my brotha!... Right on!
 

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But for the Freedom States Alliance that fights against the proliferation of firearms in the United States, these new laws attach more value to threatened belongings than to the life of the thief and only serve to increase the number of people killed by firearms each year, which currently is estimated to stand at nearly 30,000.


My property isn't worth a life. My family's and my own safety is. If it takes shooting a BG when they break into my home to make criminals to think twice and make my family safe, so be it. That's what castle doctrine is about: Deterence, and legal use of force if the deterence doesn't work.



"It's that whole Wild West mentality that is leading the country down a very dangerous path," said Sally Slovenski, executive director of the alliance.


Hmm....dangerous path. Maybe if you're a thief, rapist, terrorist, Liberal Congress-critter, or presidential canidate known to be fond of recieving questionable political contributions. Yes, I can see how someone like that might consider people protecting their interests a dangerous path.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I would not take someone's life for my property. It is not a casual thing to kill someone. But I do assume that if someone comes in my house without my permission to steal then I will also assume that they are dangerous and act accordingly.
 

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This sounds like a winner most states should adapt to this policy
 

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bigmohawk said:
Does anyone know if there is a list somewhere or how to find out if your state has similar laws like this?


Try Handgunlaw.us. http://www.handgunlaw.us/



Check through the particular state's FAQ's and they will generally answer your question. I would recommend also checking your state's statutes to make sure Handgunlaw is current.



Jim
 

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First off let me just say I hate the term "Shoot first" law .... that's what the anti-gun people call it so that it sounds evil. Most, if not all, bills are actually called "Stand your ground".



I haven't read any states bill other then NJ but noplace in the bill does it mention shooting anyone. The bill is made so that homeowners can legally defend themselves against an intruder without the fear of having any legal action taken against them by the intruder afterwards. There is a section in the bill regarding "lethal force" but, again, does not mention any type of firearm in particular. Mainly cause lethal force can be defined as any force used that can or is known to cause seriouse bodily injury or death ....... one can certainly beat an intruder to death with a bat/club/pipe/hammer/ect.



Refering back to the start of my post that's why I hate the term "shoot first" law ..... it's not. All's the law does or would do is allow people to defend themselves when some crack head breaks in at 3am for who knows what reason without having to think about if they are gettin sued by the guy/gal (or the family) later.



I fully support this type of law and have been doing my best to keep track of it as to where it's at in NJ law process ... unfortunatly it doesn't seem to be going far last I checked. I hate this state so much. This has got to be one of the only places where someone can break into your house, slip & fall, then turn around and sue you over it :roll:
 

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Hey Zippy



I live in New Jersey too. The only laws passed in this state are laws

favoring criminals. The honest man pays for it all. The upshoot is that

the majority of the people in this state keep voting for the same

liberal anti-gun crowd every election day. There are a few guys like

you and me that are shoveling you know what against the tide.



Zeke
 

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I'm lucky florida passed it, and it also carries over to your vehicle and place of work.
 

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Ours was signed a while ago, but didn't go into effect until Sept 1st of this year. Previously, you had to show that you were somehow "threatened" and even after that, you were often sued. No one in Texas would find you legally guilty... but civily... yea, you would be paying some $$$. If anyone walks into my house without asking me first, then they become an immediate threat to me, regardless if they pose any immediate visible threat. This is my piece of the pie, and no one has the right to take it, or even to threaten it.



Just imho.
 
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