[matt7184]

I just wanted to make a comment with all the low left problems I've read about. Granted I do not know the backgrounds of the shooters shooting low left, however I recommend you have someone else shoot it. If it is still shooting low left, shoot it off a sandbag rest or the equivalent. Pay close attention to your trigger control. Low left is a very common problem and I believe you should try to see if it is you before you send it to S&W. There is no point in having your handgun sent to them for a few weeks only to get it back and you still shoot it low left. If it is you, then you will need to practice your trigger control to get used to the gun.



FWIW, I still shoot Glocks low left with very tight groups and for my life cannot get it to not shoot low left offhand. The guns do not seem to fit my hand. Have not ever had a low left problem with any other guns or the M&P .40s I have shot. Look into into changing to a different backstrap with the M&P if you have this problem and see how it affects it.

 

[cet]

I'm left-handed ... Will I experience a low and to the right hit?



I'm new to shooting and will probably need a fair amount of time to hone my skill.

 

[matt7184]

I believe it is flipped for left handed shooters. There are other charts but I don't remember what site they are on, someone else will probably find it. Here is one however:

 

[matt7184]

http://www.targetshooting.ca/docs/Pistol_Shot_Analysis.pdf

I'm left-handed ... Will I experience a low and to the right hit?

I believe so.



Also practice dry firing. Some of the better shooters I know practice it a few hundred to thousand times per day.

 

[cet]

Does dry firing require the use of snap caps?



Can you harm your pistol by racking the slide (as normal when you want to fire) without a magazine inserted or by pulling the trigger to engage the pluger without a snap cap?



These may sound like really silly questions, but believe it or not, I've heard positive and contrary from a variety of staffers at gun shops and the gun show I went to.



I figure Dan and the rest of the folks here can finally put some of these myths to bed or validate potentially harmful processes.



What "exactly" is involved in dry firing? (how much vermouth?

)



I know, alcohol and firearms don't mix, but seriously, is it a walk-through of everything to the point where the pistol goes bang, without the bang?



Also, are there any internet videos that show the basics of grip, breathing, stance, etc. -- a beginners "How To" shoot properly?



Many Thanks as always!

 

[matt7184]

Does dry firing require the use of snap caps?

No it does not generally with centerfire cartridges. It can't hurt though. Always refer to the manual to confirm that dry firing is ok on that firearm, otherwise contact the manufacturer.

Can you harm your pistol by racking the slide (as normal when you want to fire) without a magazine inserted or by pulling the trigger to engage the pluger without a snap cap?

No. Just don't let the slide slam closed without a snap cap or round going in the chamber.

What "exactly" is involved in dry firing?

Not exactly sure what you are asking but: Ensure firearm is unloaded. Point firearm in safe direction. Pull trigger.

I know, alcohol and firearms don't mix, but seriously, is it a walk-through of everything to the point where the pistol goes bang, without the bang?

You mean what happens with various failures and a way to diagnose it?

Also, are there any internet videos that show the basics of grip, breathing, stance, etc. -- a beginners "How To" shoot properly?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4...1363&q=ipsc

 

[snscott]

I'd say I could easily see myself doing either "too much tigger finger" and/or also "squeezing finger tips while pulling trigger" on the MP40. The reach to the trigger, for my big hands, feels almost uncomfortably short, even with the large palm insert. My trigger finger just does not "feel right" much of the time. I don't experience this on my HK 45 USPf. I do experience it on my XD-9, but to a lesser degree (and I do shoot more to the left and/or lower with the XD than the HK, just not as much as with the MP). So, it all kind of fits exactly what that sample target shows.



So, what I am saying is that in my case, it is very much most likely ME and not the MP.

 

[ncpilot]

I've watched that video several times now... and it has helped me, along with about 800 rds of ammo!

I was shooting low left (7 o'clock) initially, but with nice tight groups. As I concentrated on the techniques that Todd Jarrett shows in the video, I got better. Then I saw another video that also helped...



It has been suggested that you concentrate more on the weak hand grip than the strong hand, relaxing the strong hand... and one of the videos showed rapid fire with just fine recoil control by simply "squeezing" the grip of the gun between the palms of you hand, basically, i.e. the backstrap of the grip was visible.



As I concentrated on these items, I am now able to hit where I aim much more consistently--more or less...

 

[matt7184]

 

[Dan Burwell]

I have not shot everyone's M&P but I have shot quite a few since I test fire every trigger job I do. I have yet to find one the shot low left, they have all shot dead center most POA occasionally I find one the shoots a bit high.



So I have a strong suspicion that the low left phenomenon is shooter induced and not a M&P "feature".

 

[matt7184]

I have not shot everyone's M&P but I have shot quite a few since I test fire every trigger job I do. I have yet to find one the shot low left, they have all shot dead center most POA occasionally I find one the shoots a bit high.



So I have a strong suspicion that the low left phenomenon is shooter induced and not a M&P "feature".

Thank you for popping in this thread Dan. I have the same suspicions which is why I hope people check this thread before sending their gun off for "bad sights".

 

[dragonlibra]

Now I'm no expert shooter, but I have competed in IDPA for a number of years mostly shooting Glocks and have no problem putting those center most of the time. I know with my Glock when I hit outside the 0 it's me and not the gun.



When I got my M&P 9mm a couple of weeks ago at a indoor range mostly slow firing and even firing with gun resting on their raised cutout on the bench I was mostly finding it was shooting low left for me. I was a bit disappointed.



After a trigger job by Dan the problem of low left was gone for me and I seem to be shooting it as well if not better than my Glock 34.



Be interesting when competition season starts again and I can run both guns through the same course and do some time/accuracy comparisons.



Now I'm not half the shooter Dan is, so my .02 cents I figure his trigger job compensates for my bad trigger pull. I know when I shot a Sig 228 I'd shoot the first DA shot low left.



Rita

 

[Dan Burwell]

I guess I should have said that the guns I test fire are all after I do a trigger job. But I didn't want to claim that my trigger job is the cure, as reallly all it is doing is making it easier to keep on target when the shot breaks.



But you see by cleaning up the trigger I am not doing anything to barrel lock up or anything that will effect the accuracy of the gun so that tell me the guns don't shoot low left the shooters do.

 

[ncpilot]

Absolutely! A shooter issue.



Although... it is interesting how many of us are having the "7 oclock" problem...



I rented a couple of Glocks and an XD (unfortunately, no M&P for rent) to see how I liked a striker fired gun... The Glock was consistently low left, the XD was much closer to bullseye. This was switching back and forth, alternating guns...



So given a person's technique, point of impact can change depending on the gun (I know, nothing new, the virulent argument between Glock and the other 1911 grip style guns).



All my other experience is with single action semi-autos, and firing revolvers generally in single action mode. So there's a big learning difference with the long pull striker action pistols, at least for me...



So I can easily believe a trigger mod would be very helpful if it made more like a single action...



However, I'm somewhat paranoid about making any modifications to a gun that might be used in self defense, because of course, all mods make guns more deadly, and more likely to fire accidentally..... :roll:



Anyway, I'm anxious to see if my change in technique will help me out with my single action guns...

 

[tjq]

I also shot low/left for about 300 rounds. I believe it to be me learning the weapon. After another concentrated 200 rounds, I seem to be at POA, or close. I personally think it was getting used to the trigger.

 

[greener]

Had to demonstrate that to myself. My new M&P9 was going low-left. Took my old M&P (~1930 .38 police special), which I usually only fire SA, and did a dance in the 9-10 ring. As soon as I switched to DA, the rounds went to 7-8 o'clock and low. A little concentration on the trigger of the M&P9 eliminated most of the low. I'm still working on the left. The front sight is off-center, right about a MM. It is obviously not centered on the barrel. Is this something that is common? How long should I keep correcting the shooter before I start trying to adjust the front or rear sight?

 

[Arizona Smithshooter]

I have read quite a few posts on this Forum about the front sight not being centered, mine being one of them. My groups were all well left of center and then I noticed my front sight was way right of centerline. I was able to center the front sight and that corrected my shooting left. It was only off center about 1/8 inch. Do a search on "Front Sights" and you should be able to bring up all the past posts.

 

[ArnisAndyz]

I was shooting low right (I'm a lefty) when I first got my M&P. It was definately the trigger control or lack therof on my part. I had been shooting exclusively 1911s - nice short single action trigger. Played with the backstraps and did a DIY trigger job plus alot of practice and thing are much better now.

 

[ysued]

The funny thing is that I shoot Low & Left with most guns......



Except with the M&P9!!



Go figure

 

[Dan Burwell]

Yamil,

Maybe with a trigger job I can get back to your normal low and left