[ArmyCop]

Ok, I'm no rookie but kinda new to the M&P - I guess as new as it is maybe everyone is still kinda new to it.

Anyway, Couple days ago had to qualify with my PD. Had the classroom instruction on safety, shooting etc... - then onto the range.

It's not unusual for me to get expert (94-100) but my best was 90 - not bad but...



I found I was having to aim high to get good hits where I wanted them.



At around 25 yards out I was consistently hitting 12 to 18 inches low.



I'm shooting my M&P Fullsize .40 caliber.



Anyone experience anything like this? What can you do about it?



Send back to S&W???

 

[matt7184]

What weight/type ammo were you using?

 

[ArmyCop]

First 50 rounds were Federal Premium Law Enforcement Ammo - Hydra-Shok - 155 Grain JHP



Next 50 with American Eagle (By Federal Cartridge Company) 180 Grain FMJ



Same results no matter which ammo used.

 

[loloy]

shoot more :wink:

 

[101Combat Vet]

shoot more :wink:

I agree

 

[ArmyCop]

Shoot More? My previous firearm - before the M&P came out - was a Ruger .40 P94 and I have to say it was right on anytime I shot it - used to get expert without having to aim high - bullets went where I was aiming.

With my M&P - as I said - having to aim high to get them where I want them to go. I want to keep the M&P for sure - just need to know - do I need a new rear higher sight or could S&W do anything if I sent it back?

 

[ToddG]

If you're used to scoring in the high 90-percentile then odds are it's not a lack of marksmanship skill on your part.



However, the M&P does have a much different trigger and grip configuration from the gun you're used to. So perhaps spending some time dry-firing (like this drill) and doing some marksmanship drills (like this and this) would be a good place to start.



Also, have another qualified shooter try it out, preferably someone used to the same type of trigger (M&P or Glock shooter, ideally).



If, after all that, you still think the gun is shooting 12" low at 25yd then I would definitely send it back to Smith. I don't think you can address that much elevation by simply changing the sights ... at least not easily.

 

[rollback88]

ArmyCop - I've got the same problem with my full size 9mm. It shoots about 8 inches low. Hoping that the adjustable Novak sights are available soon.



It is entertaining to read all the armchair advice about grip and shooter-induced sight problems directed at someone who can group shots all day long with every other gun in the safe.



Call Smith.



--jcd

 

[zenner22]

It is a bit troublesome to me that when people post about the MP shooting low, the "trigger control" guys pop out and assume you don't know how to shoot a pistol.



If is a FACT that some M&P pistols escaped the factory with this problem. Mine was one of these pistols. S&W is aware of the problem and fixes it for free, with no hassles.



My MP full size has a great trigger and so far I've never experienced a trigger that would cause me to shoot 6" low at 15 yards. S&W agreed and replaced my front sight to fix the problem that occurred at the factory.



There ARE pistols out there that need to be sent back to S&W and fixed because they shoot way low. There may not be many but there have been enough reports of this that the first replies shouldn't be "learn how to control the light trigger of the M&P." The replies should be, "bench rest the gun, verify where it's shooting and send it back to be repaired."



I'd hate to discourage someone from keeping or owning one of these fine pistols because they feel they do not have the ability to shoot one properly, when the problem is most likely the gun, not the shooter.

 

[ToddG]

It is a bit troublesome to me that when people post about the MP shooting low, the "trigger control" guys pop out and assume you don't know how to shoot a pistol.

There is a simple reality in gun company Customer Service: if you call and say your gun is shooting low (and especially if you say it's shooting low & left) they're going to assume it's the shooter. They may eventually agree to take the gun back for a check, but -- whether there is a legitimate problem with the gun or not -- they're going to assume it's you, not the gun.



So, based on my direct experience with these issues, my advice was based on certain things that will help accelerate the process for someone like the OP who probably isn't suffering from shooter induced problems.



Furthermore, the majority of the time, shooting low and left is caused by or exacerbated by poor marksmanship fundamentals. Since we can't see a poster's shooting or try his gun ourselves, it's not unreasonable to mention those issues as a possible solution. Some people might prefer to avoid the hassle of sending a perfectly in-spec gun back to the manufacturer just to get a letter back that says "your gun is fine, you just suck."

 

[choochboost]

It is a bit troublesome to me that when people post about the MP shooting low, the "trigger control" guys pop out and assume you don't know how to shoot a pistol.

Don't let it trouble you. People post about "problems" all the time and in the vast majority of cases it is the person behind the gun and not the gun itself. The low left complaint is a classic example. I'm sure there are problem guns out there but before assuming you have a lemon, the human factor should be ruled out IMO.

 

[loloy]

can't agree more :wink:

 

[rollback88]

It is a bit troublesome to me that when people post about the MP shooting low, the "trigger control" guys pop out and assume you don't know how to shoot a pistol.

+1 This is what I'm talking about. If a person has been around the net for more than a couple of months, he's got the diagnostic target, etc. etc.



Sometimes, something is amiss among those of us who understand trigger control, grip, sight picture, and the search function on multiple forums. But, ask such a question and we have to wade through all the elementary advise again from the professors to get to a couple of folks who actually read and understand the problem.



Rant off. Peace.



--jcd

 

[zenner22]

Ok I do have a question about this. You guys probably have more experience with this, but when I see poor trigger control consistently it usually means the person is off a few inches not 6-8". Is being 6-8" off the target at 15yds more common than I originally thought?



Also, I see more posts on shooting ridiculously low on this forum than on any other of the firearm forums I frequent. Assuming that some of the posts complaining of shooting low are not the fault of the pistol (and I'm sure not all are), what is it, do you think, that makes the M&P more difficult to shoot accurately than most other pistols? The ergonomics are fantastic, the trigger on mine is also great, a fairly light pull. None of these things, to me, promote poor accuracy. I do take a bit of an issue with the sights, however. The small dot in the front with large dots in the rear do seem backward to me.

 

[ToddG]

Sometimes, something is amiss among those of us who understand trigger control, grip, sight picture, and the search function on multiple forums. But, ask such a question and we have to wade through all the elementary advise again from the professors to get to a couple of folks who actually read and understand the problem.

You're right. The next person who asks a question on this forum, I'll assume he's a Master-class shooter who also has a lot of experience on multiple gun forums and loves the Search function. You know, like the average guy at mp-pistol.com. That's why we never see two threads with the same subject around here. :roll:



zenner ... I don't think there really is a significantly higher number of complaints about low or low&left shooting here compared to other forums. But when you have a relatively new gun design, people are more likely to blame the gun than with more mature designs. Also, as has been discussed elsewhere on the forum, Smith reportedly shipped some guns with a too-tall front sight which means those guns really are shooting low.



My gun must be the ridiculous freak, it shot exactly to point of aim with 124gr +p Gold Dot at 25yd the very first time I tried. It turned in a 2.5" 5-shot group offhand. It shoots a bit high with slower ammo, which is to be expected.

 

[zenner22]

My gun must be the ridiculous freak, it shot exactly to point of aim with 124gr +p Gold Dot at 25yd the very first time I tried. It turned in a 2.5" 5-shot group offhand. It shoots a bit high with slower ammo, which is to be expected.

No, your gun is like the vast majority of perfectly functioning M&Ps that leave the factory. Please don't mistake my questions and dialogue as bashing of the M&P product line. I think they are fantastic pistols or I wouldn't have gone to the trouble to send mine back to be repaired in the first place.

 

[ToddG]

Please don't mistake my questions and dialogue as bashing of the M&P product line. I think they are fantastic pistols or I wouldn't have gone to the trouble to send mine back to be repaired in the first place.

zenner -- understood. Believe me, I know all too well that gun companies make mistakes and ship guns that should have been caught by QC.

 

[greener]

The suggestion that you bench the pistol is good. Also, if it is the pistol shooting low, then the distance from center ought to change with distance, assuming you are getting consistent groups with a consistent sight picture.



I went through a similar problem with my M&P9. The front sight was off a bit to the right. The pistol shot left and low out of the box. I didn't shoot any other pistol I owned low and left or any of several other models the first time I fired them. After wasting a lot of time and ammo futzing around with my trigger control, I sent it back to S&W. A week later the pistol returned with the front sight centered and the low gone.



I agree with the wise men that most low and low-left are shooter induced. I disagree that all those problems are trigger control. I find it a bit strange that they know that it is always the problem without shooting the pistol. I really agreed with the idea that the problem was the shooter for quite a while. I made the mistake of trying to "fix" a shooter problem that wasn't there and became disgusted with the M&P. Took a while for me to get the confidence in the pistol back.



It isn't always the shooter. Spend time checking the pistol out, then pack it off to S&W if you are convinced the pistol is the problem. Don't wast time and ammo fixing a shooter problem that may not exist.

 

[rollback88]

You're right. The next person who asks a question on this forum, I'll assume he's a Master-class shooter who also has a lot of experience on multiple gun forums and loves the Search function. You know, like the average guy at mp-pistol.com. That's why we never see two threads with the same subject around here. :roll:

Great use of sarcasm and emoticon - I respect that.



Seriously, it's not all that hard to tell if a question is from a more experienced shooter or not.



There is a difference when a person asks a question like, "this is my first pistol..." or "this is my first double-action...", etc. versus, "I've managed to sight in every other handgun in my safe, but this one still shoots 8 inches low. Has anyone else experienced this?"



--jcd

 

[rollback88]

You're right. The next person who asks a question on this forum, I'll assume he's a Master-class shooter who also has a lot of experience on multiple gun forums and loves the Search function. You know, like the average guy at mp-pistol.com. That's why we never see two threads with the same subject around here. :roll:

Great use of sarcasm and emoticon - I respect that.



Seriously, it's not all that hard to tell if a question is from a more experienced shooter or not.



There is a difference when a person asks a question like, "this is my first pistol..." or "this is my first double-action...", etc. versus, "I've managed to sight in every other handgun in my safe, but this one still shoots 8 inches low. Has anyone else experienced this?" Or, as in the original post on this thread, "I'm no rookie, but kinda new to the M&P..."



--jcd