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Discussion Starter #1
I've been a Sig fan for a long time especially the P220 which I have owned in various forms. Sig's are pretty ergonomic pistols except for the high bore axis but the M&P puts it to shame in that department. The P220 Elite is all stainless instead of having an aluminum receiver and has a beavertail. Tt also has a DA/SA trigger that I could do without as I like consistent trigger pulls at all times. But it does have a SRT trigger which has a very short and crisp reset that is nice. But I find the M&P is still more ergonomic with greater comfort at high round counts, a better trigger (once broken in, and lower recoil even compared to the much heavier all steel P20 Elite. Also carries two more rounds and the beavertail fits my hand very well whereas the P220 beavertail feels like an after though and does not curve against your hand as well as the M&P beavertail. It curves up which doesn't make much sense since Sigs don't generally have an issue with hammer bite. So the M&P .45 is cheaper, lighter, carries more rounds, and fits my hand better which makes it easier for me to shoot quickly and accurately.



 

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The "SRT" mechanism makes a huge difference for SIG's TDA guns. I had a prototype in my P226R Navy for months and even though it hadn't been heat treated, it functioned well past 10,000 rounds. Not only does the "SRT" mean shorter reset, but there is also significantly less pre-travel on followup single action shots so practical accuracy also improves for most people.



The Short Reset Trigger isn't actually a different trigger. The sear and safety lever (an internal piece of metal that pushes the firing pin safety into "fire" position) are the only parts that need to be changed. Anyone who can detail strip a SIG can swap the parts. They go in the same place and the same way.



Personally, I don't like the beavertail on the Elites at all. They seem more a function of marketing and appearance than practical use. At least in my hands, the funny curvature pushed my grip lower on the gun instead of allowing me a higher grip. Worse, the beavertail makes it almost impossible to put your thumb on the hammer as you holster the gun ... one of the biggest benefits of a TDA gun, though many M&P fans may not agree.
 

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I love Sigs, but a bit heavy IMO. I think the new Elite series are AMAZING pistols, although they are a little too pricey. I shot a P229 Elite and it was love at first sight. I just couldn't drop $1,200.00+ for the pistol.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Did not know that about the SRT trigger. Yeah the beavertail didn't work for me at all. The pistol is just too clunky to handle compared to an M&P and I used to love Sigs. The Elite series doesn't do much for me. Feels like they threw a few things on existing pistols and racheted up the price.



ToddG said:
The Short Reset Trigger isn't actually a different trigger. The sear and safety lever (an internal piece of metal that pushes the firing pin safety into "fire" position) are the only parts that need to be changed. Anyone who can detail strip a SIG can swap the parts. They go in the same place and the same way.



Personally, I don't like the beavertail on the Elites at all. They seem more a function of marketing and appearance than practical use. At least in my hands, the funny curvature pushed my grip lower on the gun instead of allowing me a higher grip. Worse, the beavertail makes it almost impossible to put your thumb on the hammer as you holster the gun ... one of the biggest benefits of a TDA gun, though many M&P fans may not agree.
 

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Steelshooter said:
The Elite series doesn't do much for me. Feels like they threw a few things on existing pistols and racheted up the price.


The result of Engineering and Marketing collaborating on a gun without input from the people who'll use it. It's been SIG's strategy for the past couple of years. Look at the SAS, the Equinox, then the Elites, & next the upcoming "SCT" series. But before we get too critical, the SAS and Equinox demand a serious premium over a regular SIG and they sell faster than SIG can build them.



If you can do without the beavertail and front cocking serrations, the price of a standard SIG new in box plus the price of the SRT parts plus the price of new wood grips (if you want them) would be far less than the cost of buying an Elite as a package. The actual working parts of the gun (other than the SRT) are no different.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well said. I don't get the appeal of the Equinox but as you said they sell. Sigs wood grips are awful. Cheap looking, ugly and fat. But some people like them. I like the idea of the SAS but without the wood grips and shiny slide. I like my carry pistols to be a little less obvious. I do like my single action 220 though and wouldn't mind single action P226. I have to wonder how quality control is working for them given the many different models they make. Variation typically equals lower quality unless QC is beefed up to compensate for it.
 

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Steelshooter said:
Well said. I don't get the appeal of the Equinox but as you said they sell. Sigs wood grips are awful. Cheap looking, ugly and fat. But some people like them. I like the idea of the SAS but without the wood grips and shiny slide. I like my carry pistols to be a little less obvious. I do like my single action 220 though and wouldn't mind single action P226. I have to wonder how quality control is working for them given the many different models they make. Variation typically equals lower quality unless QC is beefed up to compensate for it.


Or they have an effective QC with proper processes already in place.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Possible but not likely. Variation + higher unit output usually requires additional QC and/or additional or new processes. Anecdotal evidence indicates that quality control at Sig has gone down given comments by people on the Sig forum and what I have observed myself. Customer service also seems to have deteriorated. Of course you can't tell for sure unless you know the numbers and what methodology Sig uses.
 
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