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Discussion Starter #1
The dovetail, for the rear sight blade, is placed further towards the ejection port on the 2.0. I'm looking at pictures of CORE's with RDS mounted and the dovetail is further towards the rear of the slide. Does the 2.0 Compact leave enough room to have the slide milled out for an RMR?
 

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One client M&P M2.0 pistol, and several M1.0 models (including 2 of our own), have been milled for red dot and rear iron sight, I hadn't noticed any difference between them.

I do know that the difference in slide length is due to the length of the barrel, while the distance from the rear dovetail to the ejection port remains unchanged from Pro (long slide) to F/S to Compact.

Even the diminutive Shield, being significantly shorter, narrower, and lighter than other duty caliber M&P models, only manages to shave a couple mm off the distance from rear dovetail to ejection port. Quite an accomplishment when you consider they all use the same striker assembly, striker block, sear, and sights.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
so when you milled the 2.0, for a red dot, were you able to retain the original rear sight placement?

I've only been able to find a couple pictures of 2.0's (with optics) online and all of them are missing the rear sight blade.

Now that I look at them, more, I guess it is just the CORE that is different. The rear sight blade is vertical. The sight comes up straight from the dovetail. Whereas the other models come up and back so that the blade is not actually above the dovetail.

I will try to get some pix, it is difficult to explain without them.
 

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When you get your slide milled for an rmr they'll cut the slide to take a glock rear sight or whatever suppressor height sights you end up using. The stock Smith takes up too much real estate to stay with an optic. A lot of guys are having the slides cut to have the rear sight sit in front of the red dot too.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktohioedc View Post
A lot of guys are having the slides cut to have the rear sight sit in front of the red dot too.

Dont. Just don’t.
What he said. NEVER ever put the iron sight in front of the red dot.
That makes the iron totally worthless as an aid to getting your red dot
sight picture.
 

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IF there is enough top-of-the-slide thickness and real estate available, mounting the iron sights in front of the optic have valuable general as well as specific advantages:

1.It deflects debris and burnt power residue from hitting or coating the optic lens.

2.During one-handed clearing exercises, you are putting pressure against the iron sight and not your expensive optic.

3.The optic mounted rearward of the sight allows a clearer, larger field of view.

4.When drawing and shooting at human reaction time speeds, i.e. "reactive shooting", the red dot and rear iron sight act as a single unit instead of two separate ones that the eyes have to quickly align when the optic is mounted in front of the rear sight. Reactive shooting is shooting in the sub-second time the target is available, not the shooters time !

Many of the brands of optics used on pistols are now reliable enough that iron back-up sights will soon be a limited option rather than duplicative, as trending for BUIS use on rifles.

This is a Bill Rogers slide set up I use on a G17, Trijicon RMR-06, Safariland ALS-P2 holster.

M&P CORE holster options here: https://holsterops.com/search?q=optic+holster



Caution: Pseudo-science and / or amateur photos may be embedded in this post.
 

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MP9', I probably misunderstood. When I use my red dot I don't even see the iron sights, so I'm having a hard time understanding #4. If one is using both... well that's not the way to use them. One uses one or the other but not both.

As for #2, I have smashed it against a barricade to get rid of a jam, and I was not at all gentle. The RO suggested I take it easy so as not to damage it. Years and thousands of rounds later that optic is still going strong, it never even changed the sight in. (Trij' RMR 06)

There for a time I totally removed the rear sight from my M&P and never missed it so what would be #5 is echoed by me. It's back in the dovetail today, but only to keep debris out of the dovetail channel. I found the front sight of use to, at times, find the red dot, so that stayed in place.
 

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^^^As with rifle BUIS, when employing a pistol red dot it is often set up so the "dot" is right at the top of the front sight with a correct sight picture, i.e. absolutely co-witnessed sights.

With rifles, the optic red dot may be "absolutely" co-witnessed or the the BUIS sight picture may be in the lower 1/3 of the optic window. As in the acronym Back-Up-Iron-Sights, the "back up" is when / if the optic fails.

However, since both the pistol iron sights and the red dot are typically absolutely co-witnessed with tall suppressor style sights, some find initial orientation of the red dot sight picture (e.g. out of the draw or from extended ready position) easier to obtain with the iron sights present as they are much larger in their immediate field of vision, then the red dot is "always there", for subsequent shots and thereafter their subconscious mind then just ignores the presence of the iron sights.

Without the pistol iron sights, some complain that they cannot acquire the "dot" in the optic field of view rapidly enough, which is usually due to not presenting the gun to the dominant eye in a correct repetition manner.

My singular point to be considered was the more luxury time one has to acquire the sight picture the less critical the relationship as to whether the optic leads or trails the rear sight position.

These Bill Roger videos clearly demonstrate the speeds of reactive shooting and why the Rogers slide is setup the way it is.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/syv3z9zegyouu6w/Bill Rogers Explains the School & Philosophy.mp4?dl=0


https://www.dropbox.com/s/157nxfnu021qudj/Bill Rogers Explains School Target System copy.mp4?dl=0



Caution: Pseudo-science and / or amateur photos may be embedded in this post.
 

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When you shoot a pistol with an optic, your focus is on the target. If you draw and present correctly (and consistently) your dot should appear at the same place in your view every time. You should not have to "look for" the dot, and looking for the sights is a distraction from the target.
In my opinion the only value co-witnessed sights have is if the optic fails, which most don't anymore. If you're going to use an optic, watch one of the many videos on how to use it effectively. It is completely different than using your sights.
 

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My wife's CZ75 Compact had a red/amber fiber optic front sight and the DP Pro with the DP Pro iron back up sight on the rear.

She complained that she was confused by having two "red" dots out there and had to "decide" which one to use. On another forum, a guy suggested changing the fiber optic front sight FO rod to a different color. I installed a green FO rod in it and she was happy as could be. Easy to tell (for her) which was which.

I never had that issue as the RMR DI sight on my P07 as a big amber dot for the RMR and a much smaller front FO amber rod/dot.
 

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^I use the green fiber optics on almost all of my front sights when available. When using an optic sight I too don't like to to see two very similar red dots in the sight picture. Some Eotech holographic sights have 2-4 red dots in the sight picture. The human eye processes the green wavelength more effectively than a red color. I prefer Eotech's option of the green ring with single dot which I mounted on this KAC SR30 .300 blackout.

Caution: Pseudo-science and / or amateur photos may be embedded in this post.
 

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