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Is the new M+P Pistols new tech. old tech. or a hybrid? I love the way the M+P fits my big mitts is that the only differences in these different brands? Thanks, John
 

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Well to start with, the Sigma was an exact copy of a Glock, with the exception of a couple trigger parts. It was not very successful. Glock sued S&W over copyright stuff. S&W had to change a few things, plus give Glock a certain amount of money for every Sigma sold. Glock enthusiasts would rather have a Glock than a crappy copy.



The M&P is not new technology in that most of the mechanics have been used in other platforms. S&W hired some former Glock engineers to help design the M&P. S&W wanted to make the best polymer framed pistol. Only time will tell if that has happened. The M&P has very few similarities of the Sigma. About the only carryover is the hinged trigger safety; the internal trigger parts are different. The frame is different. The slide and barrel are different. The mechanics are similar to Glock, but a little different. I feel that most of the differences are for the better.



I could get very technical, and make this post very long. But I think that pretty much sums it up. I would not buy a Sigma. I feel both the Glock and the M&P are superior pistols. You can't really go wrong with either.
 

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GotDogs,

I think Yukonglocker did a good job summing up the comparison. I own both an M&P and Glock and as Yukonglocker said they are both superior pistols, but I have to give a slight edge to the M&P over the Glock in that it is more ergonomical in its design for fit to the average individual's hand, adjustable backstrap and overall shape that is more streamlined than the Glock. If the M&P's track record for reliability and quality holds out over time, than I believe that the shooting public will see S&W's polyframe M&P as an improvement over the Glock. On the other hand if Glock as a company does some developing of its own instead of remaining statusquo, than I think they will have beaten S&W again.
 

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YukonGlocker said:
I could get very technical, and make this post very long. But I think that pretty much sums it up. I would not buy a Sigma. I feel both the Glock and the M&P are superior pistols. You can't really go wrong with either.


I did buy a Sigma and regretted it. It was functionally good but had a dreadful trigger that I never learned to handle. I shed no tears when I sold it.



I have a Glock 17 and an M&P9 and like both but, as noted, the ergonomics of the M&P are far better. The M&P's trigger is slightly superior (the Glock has the 5.5 pound connector) but not dramatically so. Both are excellent pistols and I think S&W has finally built a truly competitive semi auto.
 

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dont recall S&W having to pay royalty on the sigma to glock though if glock was smart they should have gotten one.



M&P is hybrid tech.



based on blend of

Glock

FN FNP

XD

Sig

Steyr

S&W metal frame line



sigma

Walther P99/SW99

M&P



S&W put some time in engineering the M&P for sure. be interesting to find out how much the price would drop without the fancy slide serations and other cuts.



Sigma has had many evolutionary versions F,C,V,E,VE,GVE,G,M and many more.

the subcompacts were junk. F,C,V suffer dust cover crack. E,G,VE,GVE are newer generations and work well.



good gun simple design could use sear and strikers made of better materials machined out of bar stock. be nice if someone made a spring for the sear lever that wasnt as strong. custom sear lever with adjustable tension on the springs retaining the sear would be simply nice for tuning trigger.



accuracy is all on shooters ability to pull the trigger the gun itself is plenty accurate. deliberate pull is a good safety feature.



Sigma's are sold for $280-$320 simple inexpensive item to produce could benefit largely with a better quality striker,sear and sear lever(adjustable even, simple to do) and lower spring for the sear lever.



M&P has metal subframe locking block with frame rails attached and linkage from front block to rear fcg block with frame rails which is nice and may add to durability or serviceability.
 

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MrApathy said:
dont recall S&W having to pay royalty on the sigma to glock though if glock was smart they should have gotten one.



M&P is hybrid tech.



based on blend of

Glock

FN FNP

XD

Sig

Steyr

S&W metal frame line



sigma

Walther P99/SW99

M&P



S&W put some time in engineering the M&P for sure. be interesting to find out how much the price would drop without the fancy slide serations and other cuts.



Sigma has had many evolutionary versions F,C,V,E,VE,GVE,G,M and many more.

the subcompacts were junk. F,C,V suffer dust cover crack. E,G,VE,GVE are newer generations and work well.



good gun simple design could use sear and strikers made of better materials machined out of bar stock. be nice if someone made a spring for the sear lever that wasnt as strong. custom sear lever with adjustable tension on the springs retaining the sear would be simply nice for tuning trigger.



accuracy is all on shooters ability to pull the trigger the gun itself is plenty accurate. deliberate pull is a good safety feature.



Sigma's are sold for $280-$320 simple inexpensive item to produce could benefit largely with a better quality striker,sear and sear lever(adjustable even, simple to do) and lower spring for the sear lever.



M&P has metal subframe locking block with frame rails attached and linkage from front block to rear fcg block with frame rails which is nice and may add to durability or serviceability.


The royalty was around $3 per Sigma. I don't know if they are still paying it or not.



You could say that most new guns introduced are hybrid technology, because most use mechanics that have been proven in other platforms. What parts on the M&P came from the FNP, XD, or S&W 3rd. Gen.???



The deletion of the slide serrations would do nothing to drop the cost. The stock is loaded into a CNC machine. The machine cuts the slide as per the program. CNC machines cut very fast; so the time it takes to cut the serrations is very short. Once the program is in place, there is really no difference in cost to make small cuts like that.
 

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I had a Sigma 40V for several years. Probably put 4000-5000rds. through it. I have a few friends with Sigmas too including one retired State Trooper. It`s a small sample but none of us ever had a lick of trouble with them. I think the Sigma design was actually an *improvement* over the Glock in many ways. The Ergos were much better at least for me. The hinged trigger is more comfortable than the Glock (again to me). The stainless magazines were much better than the chubby plastic Glock mags. IMO S&W`s biggest problem (besides making it look like an obvious Glock clone instead of changing enough details to keep Glock off their back) was in the details. The heavy trigger didn`t need to be. When everyone complained,swapping a few springs in the gun at the factory could have taken care of that. The gritty take up was because of the same reason the M&P has it,it was just much worse. The fix is the same and once I did a little polishing on my Sigma and put a Wolff striker spring in it the trigger wasn`t bad at all. How much would it have taken to drop those stamped parts in a tumbler at S&W to smooth them out and eliminate the grit problem? Once it`s bad reputation was established,much like the Edsel or the Corvair the Sigma never had any hope of being a contender.

The M&P is a much better pistol overall though. I`m really glad I got one! In fact it`s been doing double duty as both CCW and HD gun despite the fact that I have lots of other handguns for both. I may have to buy a few more (a Compact and a .45?) so the 40 doesn`t have to multitask.
MadMarcus
 

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Short answer for the OP. The M&P is not a sigma, and is not a glock.



As for the M&P's heritage, the trigger lever (i.e. the front half, including the bit poking out of the frame) is pure sigma. The trigger mechanism (the moving parts in the gun) Owes a definite nod to the XD/HS2000. I believe the molded in metal frame reinforcement would have to recognize the steyer as the source of that, but i could be wrong as I haven't ever met an H&K vp70z in the flesh and the descriptions on it don't say anything on the subject. The striker mechanism is evolved sigma, which basically means an update on the glock design. Basically it is VERY glock-ish with the location of the firing pin safety being moved rearward. As for the interchangable gripstraps, i believe the Walther p99 wins the prize for being the parent of that. Although the M&P's grip straps are easier to change than any others I have run into.





The gun has enough similiar to alot of others to recognize where it borrowed the good idea, but it doesn't have enough in common to make any assumptions about reliability or faults of any of the systems.



The design is soild and should work well. Any real issues are going to come from metallurgy and QC, which so far has been the case.
 
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