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Discussion Starter #1
A question and a little back groung on the reason for the question. I have a M and P .40 and have a 9 MM on order. I plan to send the .40 to Mr. Bowie and the 9MM to Mr. Burwell (yeah I know, can't help myself; but the grips are pretty slick). I'm going to use the .40 on duty and the 9 MM as a back up to the .40 (two is one) since anything man made can break. I alsp plan on shooting the 9 MM in IDPA (shooting 9MM because I can get it much cheaper). I've shot IPSC in the past but am very new to IDPA.



I plan on having the grips on both pistols stippled since I prefer a very tractioned (is that a word?) grip. I know that grit tape is available and have used it, but don't like it.



I see that if I have the front strap stippled on the 9MM it would move it from SSP to ESP. I've searched this sight and haven't been able to find an answer but:



What is the down side to moving to ESP?



Is it a tougher division, more competitive?



I'll be shooting IDPA for fun and as an add on to my additional training and to develop my weapons handling under some pressure. I have no illusions that I will be the next Langdon, Sevigny etc.(I won't), but like any red blooded American, I do enjoy competing.



I was just trying to make an informed decision if there was any real problem with starting in ESP?



By the way, this is a great sight and very informative.



Thanks for the help.
 

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CCM said:
I see that if I have the front strap stippled on the 9MM it would move it from SSP to ESP. I've searched this sight and haven't been able to find an answer but:



What is the down side to moving to ESP?



Is it a tougher division, more competitive?



I was just trying to make an informed decision if there was any real problem with starting in ESP?


You've answered most of your own questions.



Yes, by having the grip stippled, technically your gun now falls into ESP. Had you not stippled the grip, the gun can be shot in both SSP and ESP.



The downside of ESP? well, you'll be competing against shooters using 9mm, .38 super or .40 S&W 1911s. Theoretically they have a slight edge over other guns due to better trigger, longer sight radius, heavier gun to soak up those bone crunching 9mm ball recoil
. Don't sweat it, shoot it, have fun and learn.



BTW, I shoot my stock Beretta and M&P Compact in ESP and SSP, depending on my mood on match day.
 

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ESP is where a lot of huys who have their tricked-out pistols go to play. Also, the time requirements for classification rankings are less in ESP thean SSP (meaning you have to be faster in ESP to acheive Master, Expert, etc than SSP).



However, as the saying goes, it's the indian, not the arrow. If you shoot your pistol, and shoot it well, there is noting that would keep you from being able to compete with the other ESP guys.



However, if you are mainly shooting at a local club, they may care less if your stippled M&P competes in SSP.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Ricky and Darren,



I may not of made it clear in the original post. I haven't actually gotten the work done to the 9MM yet. I appreciate the help and advice you guys have given.



I'm probably just going to get one of Mr. Burwells sharkskin backstraps, trigger job and fiber optic front and just leave it at that, so I can stay in SSP or shoot ESP if I want.



Oh, and Ricky, I appreciate the reference to "Bone Chrushing 9MM Recoil." Made me laugh out loud.



Thanks for the help guys.



Be Safe,

Chuck
 

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CCM said:
Ricky ,



I may not of made it clear in the original post. I haven't actually gotten the work done to the 9MM yet. I appreciate the help and advice you guys have given.





Oh, and Ricky, I appreciate the reference to "Bone Chrushing 9MM Recoil." Made me laugh out loud.



Thanks for the help guys.



Be Safe,

Chuck


Chuck:

Part of being old and posting way past my bed time made me read that you already had to work done. Sorry bro.



Those 9mm packs a wallop, doesn't it?
 

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ESP is the highest division in IDPA. You will be competing against $3000 STI/SVI guns. At the 2005 IDPA Nationals Rob Leatham was only able to make it to third place with his XD competing against the STI guys.

It may not make much difference at the club level but it will at the National level.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Gary,

Good point, I won't be worrying about the National Level for awhile (if ever). It will mostly be club level.



Ricky, lets not even discuss the body numbing power of the 9MM +P+, I shudder and cringe to think about shooting that stuff!!! :wink:

Again guys, thanks for all the advice.



Chuck
 

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SSP vs. ESP

At the club level you might find fewer competitors in ESP than SSP. Probably depends on what people tend to shoot in your area.



IMHO both SSP and ESP have some real competitors at Regional/National level.



If you're there just to have fun and practice your skills - then I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference if you shoot SSP or ESP.



You didn't mention if you're still going to compete in IPSC/USPSA. I know stippling takes you out of production division there as well.



You might just want to get the sharkskin backstraps from Dan and you can switch back to the regular backstraps when competing.



As someone mentioned unless they are sticklers to IDPA rules or someone calls you on it, I'd bet most local clubs wouldn't care you had the stippling - heck I consider that a safety thing especially in humid/rainy weather. But then I don't make up the rules.



For instance I had a grip plug in my Glock for years and didn't know at the time it was illegal in SSP in IDPA and no one ever pointed it out to me. I even competed with it in two regional matches. Now it's legal in IDPA but still verboten in USPSA.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Dragon,



I plan on shooting IPSC also. The IPSC club shoots at the same range. As it works out, one Saturday is IPSC and the next is IDPA. To be honest, I just want to shoot. Any thing that takes you out of the comfort level and puts you in different situations is a benefit in my opinion. Another form of training.



I don't think the folks at the IDPA Club could really give a rip to be honest, but could see it being an issue at the state match.



Thanks again guys.
 
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