[Jester]

I'm looking to go a suppressor route for my ar. I don't want something that will break the bank, nor do I want a POS.



Suggestions?

 

[101Combat Vet]

Get a hold of Josh and how much money he is throwing arround he will probably buy one for ya :wink: :wink: :wink:

 

[josh]

I won't buy one for you, but I'll suggest a couple.

Tactical Innovations Tac16. It's full auto rated, and a very well built can. Slightly heavy. It's the cheapest .223 can out there, but it is very well built, and its sound suppression is right up there with some of the better one's. $399.99 new from TacInc + $200 transfer tax. You can usually find new Tac16's at dealers for $300-$350 new.



AAC M4-1000. Most would reccoment the Advance Armament Corporation(AAC) M4-1000 as an entry level .223 suppressor due to having more "bells & whistles" than the Tac16. It uses a QD mount vs. a thread on. Does not disassemble which to 98% of users doesn't matter. $550 new from AAC + $200 transfer tax.



Those are two of the cheapest .223 cans I have experience with. I'm not familiar with YHM, SWR, SpecWar, HTG, DTA, Gemtech, or any other manufacturer's cans.



AAC makes some of, if not the best suppressors on the market. You will not be unhappy if you buy one of their suppressors. I won't buy from them due to seeing how childish they can be on other various gun forums, and how down right disrespectful they are to competing manufacturer's, but I know if I ever bought a suppressor from them I'd be more than happy with it. They're rated #1 by most in the suppressor world for a reason.



I'll also suggest a visit to www.silencertalk.com/forum

 

[C4iGrant]

We are now an SOT and will be stocking cans soon! My suggestion and is what I will be using on my own weapons is the SureFire cans. Shoot me an e-mail and we can go over pricing.





C4

 

[SuicideHz]

I have to disagree with going the AAC route. They are very popular in their own circles but if you've seen how they deal with people who don't buy their products on other forums as well as how they deal with and talk about other dealers you'd quickly change your mind. Granted, none of this really matters if all you want is a working suppressor at the end of the day but there are equally nice suppressors out there.



I'd suggest Gemtech, OPSinc or YHM suppressors as all of those companies have people that act like honest gentlemen.



YHM makes the most affordable can aside from the TAC16 which truly is a low level can.

 

[JFettig]

get a .300 whisper upper and can

If you run regular .223 loads they will still crack. If you run subsonic, they are pretty weak.



I'd rather throw a 240gr .30 cal bullet than a little 55-69gr bullet at 1050fps.



edit- not sure how well it works but I've heard of people using 9mm cans on their .300 whispers with good luck, If you go that route you can swap the can between a pistol and the rifle.



Jon

 

[Grimwulff]

get a .300 whisper upper and can

If you run regular .223 loads they will still crack. If you run subsonic, they are pretty weak.



I'd rather throw a 240gr .30 cal bullet than a little 55-69gr bullet at 1050fps.



edit- not sure how well it works but I've heard of people using 9mm cans on their .300 whispers with good luck, If you go that route you can swap the can between a pistol and the rifle.



Jon

I'd personally rather use my 223. A can will suppress the sonic boom out of the gun diffusing and causing turbulence to the shockwave. Besides... the bullet hits the target before the sound will. So... the can is only for the owner and the people directly around...



As well, ANY rifle bullet made for rifles is supersonic (with the exception to the 22 and 17 calibers)... so... I think by your logic, all bullets for rifles will make the "crack" and therefore all silencers for rifles are unneeded and useless.



Just my in opinion, no offense.

 

[JFettig]

[quote name='JFettig']get a .300 whisper upper and can

If you run regular .223 loads they will still crack. If you run subsonic, they are pretty weak.



I'd rather throw a 240gr .30 cal bullet than a little 55-69gr bullet at 1050fps.



edit- not sure how well it works but I've heard of people using 9mm cans on their .300 whispers with good luck, If you go that route you can swap the can between a pistol and the rifle.



Jon

I'd personally rather use my 223. A can will suppress the sonic boom out of the gun diffusing and causing turbulence to the shockwave. Besides... the bullet hits the target before the sound will. So... the can is only for the owner and the people directly around...



As well, ANY rifle bullet made for rifles is supersonic (with the exception to the 22 and 17 calibers)... so... I think by your logic, all bullets for rifles will make the "crack" and therefore all silencers for rifles are unneeded and useless.



Just my in opinion, no offense.[/quote]



Say what? "I think by your logic, all bullets for rifles will make the "crack""



No, you did not read my "logic" correctly. I said nothing about that anywhere, I actually said just the opposite.





If you don't know what 300 whisper is, its a cartridge that uses a big rifle bullet loaded to subsonic velocities (about 1050fps) so it doesn't break the sound barrier and crack after its left the silencer. If you want true silence you need velocities below the speed of sound. Doing this with a 55gr bullet would give you only a small advantage over a .22 LR.



Jon

 

[Grimwulff]

If you don't know what 300 whisper is, its a cartridge that uses a big rifle bullet loaded to subsonic velocities (about 1050fps) so it doesn't break the sound barrier and crack after its left the silencer. If you want true silence you need velocities below the speed of sound. Doing this with a 55gr bullet would give you only a small advantage over a .22 LR.



Jon

Yea... i'm aware what a 300 whisper is, and not all of them are subsonic.



Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy

125 gr(~8.1 g) JHP 2100 ft/s(~640 m/s) 1224 ft·lbf(~1665 J)

220 gr(~14.26 g) JHP 1040 ft/s(~317 m/s) 529 ft·lbf(~719 J)



1st one is super sonic, second is subsonic at 70* F. So it seems limiting to solely build a weapon around a subsonic round of one specific caliber. As well, the speed of sound is not a constant, and in dead winter in Canada, the second bullet will be close to supersonic.



Ultimately, even out to extreme distances for the 223 it is still going almost twice the speed of sound, making the suppresor only truly necessary for the one shooting the weapon... because if you're accurate, your target will be dead before he would hear the sound. That is all I have to say and sidetrack from Jester's post.

 

[nicksully]

Sorry about posting in a dead topic and that post being a thread jack but I'm curious to know.



1. What does a suppressor do besides cut back on the noise you hear? Is there a real purpose besides the 'cool' factor?



2. If I want one for my MP15A what would I need to do?



Thanks for the info.

 

[TBomb06]

Sorry about posting in a dead topic and that post being a thread jack but I'm curious to know.



1. What does a suppressor do besides cut back on the noise you hear? Is there a real purpose besides the 'cool' factor?



2. If I want one for my MP15A what would I need to do?



Thanks for the info.

Well, this is just my understanding, so I might be completely off, but here goes. Most suppressors are designed similar to a muffler on a car. They have a series of baffles inside them that allow the hot, rapidly expanding gasses from the shot to expand relatively slowly and cool off a little bit at the same time. The noise that is associated with a rifle shot is only partly due to the actual explosion of the shot, the rest is the sound of the bullet breaking the sound barrier. When the gasses that are leaving the barrel and propelling the bullet are allowed to expand slowly and cool off the noise related to the shot is "suppressed" and therefore not as loud.



You can, and many people do, run a suppressor with normally loaded ammo just fine. There is still the sound of the round breaking the sound barrier, but the shot itself is generally quiet enough that you can shoot without ear protection and not suffer any hearing damage. I am not a SF/SWAT or anything like that, nor do I play one on TV, but from what I've heard suppressors are often used in situations where wearing ear pro might not be possible/practical but is still needed, such as on a raid or similar indoor scenario where you need to be totally aware of your surroundings.



Now, if you add subsonic ammo to the equation, you can have a rifle that shoots so quiet that all you hear is the bolt cycling and the impact of the round, more or less. The downside, as previously stated, is that to get a round to subsonic speeds you have to slow it down below 1100 FPS, which is a little more than a third of the muzzle velocity of a standard 5.56 round. This means that you lose a lot of the energy of the round, and for a 55 grain round it is velocity that makes it effective. Thus, it is really only practical to use subsonic 5.56 loads at close contact ranges. Of course, those are generally the scenarios where you would need subsonic and suppressed fire since, as previously stated, if you are engaging a target at range the round will get there before the sound will.



I have a friend who is a Class 3 dealer and manufacturer who has made a few different suppressors. One was for a .308 bolt gun for a guy who wanted to hunt hogs without his neighbors getting pissed at him all the time. He still used normal loads but they were much quieter with the suppressor and you can shoot the rifle without ear pro. I also got to shoot a little toy he made that I want badly just because it is so fun...a suppressed 10/22 which, when shooting subsonic ammo, is quieter than many pellet guns that I've shot.



Now, if you want one for your M&P you will need to fill out a BATFE Form 4, get fingerprinted, passport photos, have your local county chief LEO sign your Form 4, send all of the above in to the BATFE along with $200 for your tax stamp, and, assuming you pass the background check, you will receive your certified Form 4 and can now take your suppressor home with you. As to which suppressor to go with, I can't comment as I don't own one...yet...but there are a couple of options, again, as previously mentioned. You can get a thread-on suppressor that replaces your flash suppressor, or you can get a flash suppressor such as the Surefire 556 that is designed so that the Surefire suppressor slips over the flash suppressor and locks into place.



Anywho, I hope that some of that was helpful, and if I made any errors then those that are more knowledgeable feel free to correct me.

 

[nicksully]

Well, this is just my understanding, so I might be completely off, but here goes. Most suppressors are designed similar to a muffler on a car. They have a series of baffles inside them that allow the hot, rapidly expanding gasses from the shot to expand relatively slowly and cool off a little bit at the same time. The noise that is associated with a rifle shot is only partly due to the actual explosion of the shot, the rest is the sound of the bullet breaking the sound barrier. When the gasses that are leaving the barrel and propelling the bullet are allowed to expand slowly and cool off the noise related to the shot is "suppressed" and therefore not as loud.



You can, and many people do, run a suppressor with normally loaded ammo just fine. There is still the sound of the round breaking the sound barrier, but the shot itself is generally quiet enough that you can shoot without ear protection and not suffer any hearing damage. I am not a SF/SWAT or anything like that, nor do I play one on TV, but from what I've heard suppressors are often used in situations where wearing ear pro might not be possible/practical but is still needed, such as on a raid or similar indoor scenario where you need to be totally aware of your surroundings.



Now, if you add subsonic ammo to the equation, you can have a rifle that shoots so quiet that all you hear is the bolt cycling and the impact of the round, more or less. The downside, as previously stated, is that to get a round to subsonic speeds you have to slow it down below 1100 FPS, which is a little more than a third of the muzzle velocity of a standard 5.56 round. This means that you lose a lot of the energy of the round, and for a 55 grain round it is velocity that makes it effective. Thus, it is really only practical to use subsonic 5.56 loads at close contact ranges. Of course, those are generally the scenarios where you would need subsonic and suppressed fire since, as previously stated, if you are engaging a target at range the round will get there before the sound will.



I have a friend who is a Class 3 dealer and manufacturer who has made a few different suppressors. One was for a .308 bolt gun for a guy who wanted to hunt hogs without his neighbors getting pissed at him all the time. He still used normal loads but they were much quieter with the suppressor and you can shoot the rifle without ear pro. I also got to shoot a little toy he made that I want badly just because it is so fun...a suppressed 10/22 which, when shooting subsonic ammo, is quieter than many pellet guns that I've shot.



Now, if you want one for your M&P you will need to fill out a BATFE Form 4, get fingerprinted, passport photos, have your local county chief LEO sign your Form 4, send all of the above in to the BATFE along with $200 for your tax stamp, and, assuming you pass the background check, you will receive your certified Form 4 and can now take your suppressor home with you. As to which suppressor to go with, I can't comment as I don't own one...yet...but there are a couple of options, again, as previously mentioned. You can get a thread-on suppressor that replaces your flash suppressor, or you can get a flash suppressor such as the Surefire 556 that is designed so that the Surefire suppressor slips over the flash suppressor and locks into place.



Anywho, I hope that some of that was helpful, and if I made any errors then those that are more knowledgeable feel free to correct me.

Yes, that helped out a lot and now I want one even more than I did before.

 

[Puffy]

Yes, that helped out a lot and now I want one even more than I did before.

I see Gator boots shot at night in your future.... shhhhh here comes a DNR guy....

 

[Bowie Tactical]

A sure fire suppressor is the only way to go. They do not change point of Impact and the accuracy is top drawer. I use one myself and it is way above the rest. As for subsonic ammo in a 223 they are still no very quiet and will not often reliably cycle the bolt. Even subsonic in a suppressor is not a whole lot quieter. Plus they have a huge Point of Impact change. With suppressors like many other life and death tools you get what you pay for. Plus the sure fire can was truely designed to used all the time. I always run my gun with it.



CHECK 360 David