They might be years late in your opinion, but they will still sell millions of them. The Sig P365 was first announced in early 2018. Hellcat in late 2019. You know it takes a company at least a year if not 2 years from initial concept to launch date?? And before that even starts, they're going to first gauge the market and see how the competitor model is faring, and how the consumer market is reacting to it. Then once they decide to compete against it, they go to work. Smith had to design a mag that would work in the existing Shield footprint, same mechanical internals (to keep the infamous reliability) and not make us guinea pig testers like Sig did to everyone. I'd RATHER it be like this than an entirely new gun brought to the table. They had make a design that would get around Sig's patent. And they are a public, for profit company, so of course they are going to try and wait so they can sell as many 2.0 Shields as possible before introducing another Shield of this magnitude. They don't want to cannibalize product lines. And with the record breaking surge in gun sales in 2020 I'm sure this led them to delay the launch as they knew they could sell tons of guns without having to release a new one. Sure it would've been nice if it came out a year ago but I'm not complaining. Now with all of the above in mind, it should be quite obvious why this is "years late". I wouldn't be surprised if Smith delayed the launch date by up to a year due to the unprecedented demand for firearms in 2020, they didn't need to release anything. People were and still are buying anything they can get their hands on.
Excuse me, while I call BS on the guinea pig tester lie. If you read this forum, you will see a large percentage of threads with people looking for solutions to problems for the only "new design" S&W has had in a long time the "SHIELD ez".
Fact, on this gun they copied what other companies did years before, that is so easy even Stevie Wonder can see it. Nothing new, just "same old same old".
But "hey lets feed the same old product to the dummies that didn't buy until its a panic", that will certainly create return customers. Once folks learn the 1.0 gun they just bought new is old, guess what company they won't look to for their next gun.
Guaranteed you're wrong! There's dozens and dozens of hands on reviews on YouTube pouring in, and some very prominent and respected shooters who shoot tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of rounds a year. Word is that the trigger is does not suck and is quite nice. Flat faced trigger, 4-5 lbs pull weight (which many reviewers are getting less than 5 lbs on a trigger gauge) and a solid reset, I'll take that all day long for a factory trigger! Yet somehow you can guarantee me that the new trigger sucks...hmm...okay guy...this isn't a custom 1911. Hell even the die hard Glock guys who didn't like the original Shield are loving the Shield Plus. The trigger has always been a sour spot on the Shield, lame rest on 1.0, better reset on 2.0 but still the hinge trigger design which the majority if people did not like (I don't mind it and actually prefer the Shield hinged trigger to the regular M&P hinged triggers). So it's obvious the trigger is a controversial topic, and if the trigger sucked, we'd certainly be hearing that.
Look at all the posts on this forum claiming the 2.0 trigger is great, look at you tube claiming the the 2.0 trigger is great. You don't know what you don't know until you know it. Fact the 2.0 trigger sucks, just like this new one will. you tunbe is full of people getting paid to spew "greatness" about products so folks like yourself will run out blindly and buy it.
What planet are you living on? The 2.0 stipple job is hands down one of the best grip textures on the market of any factory gun. It is very widely praised by many of the top shooters in the scene. It is vastly superior to the 1.0 grip texture as so many users have proclaimed. The 2.0 texture was a welcome change from the 1.0, people love it. It really is one of the best factory stipple jobs on the market and that is a common opinion.
Some think the 2.0 grip texture is too aggressive for EDC, so I get why Smith toned it down a bit to not be as rough on the skin/make holes in shirts. I love the 2.0 grip texture but I know they did get a lot of complaints that it was too aggressive.
Again, this must be coming from someone that doesn't know what a great stipple job is. The 2.0 is half assed. They stopped and the bottom of the trigger guard (mag release area of the grip), it would not cost them any extra to go higher (there is a dent where your thumb rides, that area should also be stippled) but sheep don't realize the more of their hand on a rough texture means less movement. There is no undercut on the trigger guard, again sheep don't realize this is good for raising your grip as high as possible. There are no index points stippled between the trigger and slide, for your thumb on one side and trigger finger on the other, again sheep don't realize this is a good thing to have, because they blindly follow what paid people tell them is great.
The texture is fine, its the lack of complete coverage that makes it half assed
Again you don't know, what you don't know, until you know it.
The Shield WAS a $300 gun. Again what planet are you living on? Or what year are you stuck in? You can't find a 2.0 Shield with no thumb safety even close to that price. You'd be lucky to find a regular 2.0 Shield no safety for under $500 after tax/shipping/FFL fee. Here I'll even do the work for you:
022188872187 - Smith & Wesson M&P Shield M2.0 9MM 11808
$430 cash or $442 credit card is the cheapest one on the list, +$20 shipping, +tax, +FFL transfer, you're very close to or above $500.
The market sets the price and with the R&D, marketing costs, P365/P365XL costs, and insane demand for guns in general, this makes sense to me as an MSRP of $553, considering the street price of a 2.0 Shield no safety is close to $500 if not more. You also seem to be forgetting that a newly released gun is always going to be high at first and will naturally come down in time. Remember when the Shield 1.0 first came out? They were so hard to get a hand on and were selling out instantly. Same with the P365. And again, the insane demand for guns in general right now, especially carry guns, this should be obvious.
I bought a shield 2.0 for my neighbor who was raped in August of 2020, she couldn't afford a gun so I "gifted" it to her. It was bought from a local shop for $339.00. If you are so petty you want to say $339.00 is NOT a $300 gun, I'm done as there is no talking to somebody like that.
My uncle bought a 2.0 compact in November of 2020 for $359.00, once again new gun but it was at a dealer in another state, but it was still a $359.00 gun to anybody local.
I saw a WASR priced at $1009.00 a few days ago, are you going to tell me because stupid people aren't smart shippers that WASR's are 1K guns, that is hilarious?
Again I think the stipple job on the 2.0 is great. Personally I love the aggressive texture and carry it against my skin all day long for years and never had an issue. The vast majority of people love the 2.0 stippling over the 1.0 so I think you're in the minority here. I mean literally dozens of the biggest shooters in the industry have repeatedly said that the M&P 2.0 stipple job one of their favorites out of all manufacturers. You may not like it but again you're in the minority here.
Fix the action? The 2.0 action and reset is fine. Either you've got a lemon or you need to shoot more. I've taken multiple day long classes and I've outshot many Glock boys and 1911 guys with my 2.0 basic Shield, only thing I added are Ameriglo sights that I add to every handgun. Seriously, "the action is horrible" LOL WHAT!?
Strike 1, Strike 2, Strike3 huh? Bro you didn't even make it to the ball game!!🤣
If you don't like it then that's totally okay buddy, you don't have to buy it. The Shield whether 1.0 or 2.0 is still one of the best carry guns on the market and you can't go wrong. But it sure feels like a lot of the haters really deep down they know they want the Shield Plus but are just bitter that it didn't come out when they wanted it to and at the price they want it to be at. That's fine, but let's be realistic here. Gun prices aren't what they used to be and aren't going to be for a long time. You don't have to buy it, you do you. Hell wait until it's been out for a few years and they have another mail in rebate going.
Smith had to catch up to Sig/Hellcat, and now Ruger has their version (Max 9) which released the same day as the Shield Plus. Consumers want that stretched out capacity and now they got it.
The funniest part about all of this is that if Smith NEVER released the Shield Plus, people would still be complaining that Sig/Springfield/Ruger all released high capacity models to compete with the 365, but S&W never did! What the heck S&W! Get on with it already!! Why can't you make something to compete back?!
And now that they did release one, (that the consumers have been wanting), people are still complaining! LOL! Some things never change!
Over the last 6 years several instructors have said that my Gen 1 M&P was one of the nicest S&W's he had seen in a class (so i have an idea of what good actually is). It was done correctly even before the 2.0 released.
Had S&W released something with more capacity that was different from the other companies guns, most of us would be impressed, instead they did nothing more then add their name to the same type of gun that has been out for multiple years. BIG DEAL!
I have a buddy with a 9# shield .45 trigger.
The neighbor discussed above shield 2.0 trigger is just over 6#
My uncles 2.0 compact was the grittiest trigger I've seen in a long time until we replaced it.
Mine is just under 5#, smooth as butter with minimal movement to reset, I've yet to see a factory trigger check those boxes. So I don't expect 1911 type triggers, since its a different setup. I expect "something great" to be just that "great". If any company can make it better for $75.00 that isn't great.
As to your comment of them selling millions. PSSST: I'll tell you a secret, HiPoint has sold millions of guns. Are we going to call those great because they sell so many?
The one good thing I can say is the action on the shield line is easy and cheap to replace, unlike the 365.
When people like yourself are being fanboys and saying this is a great accomplishment, when in reality it isn't. Nothing will get better. Demand better sooner and they will be out in front, not the janitor in the rear sweeping up.
My EDC, competition gun, BUG and truck gun are all S&W. I like the brand, but am not a fan boy willing to settle for mediocre offerings as "new or great" when they aren't. Sig got "new" when they were the first to market, SA got "great" when they released one with higher capacity. S&W again gets, meh for releasing what others already did years before. Your speech above about why it takes so long is flawed because yet again, they are nowhere near being ahead of the competition. There is no arguing that.
So again, there are your 3 strikes.
