Trigger Question on Anticipating the Shot
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anticipation = bad, or a good thing?
I just did trigger jobs on two new M&Ps - I have no regrets, for they shoot great!
They are so smooth, with no "stacking" ... just smooth ... until a bit of resistance is felt. When that resistance comes, I surely DO anticipate what comes next - a nice crisp break and BOOM!
And so, anticipating and KNOWING when the trigger will break is a GOOD thing ... for me.
I guess it's more of an "expectation" rather than an "anticipation".
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My Sigma is a different story. One always "anticipates" the shot, (I mean, we know it's gonna' happen sometime during the pull) but because the pull is so heavy, I can't judge WHEN it's about to break. I pull THAT trigger and while I'm pulling it I keep thinking, "OK ... here it comes ... nope, not yet ... OK ... probably now... I guess not ... nowwwww? ... I guess just a little more ... OK, it's gotta' happen soon ... Man, I can't believe it's such a crappy trigger ... just a liitle more I hope ... BOOM! And then, the brass bonks me off the forehead, to boot.
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Long and stiff (easy gals ;-)) is no good for me. If someone were to post instructions on the Sigma pistol trigger such that the end result would feel like my new M&Ps, I would not hesitate to tear her apart and work her over. Hmmmm ... I ought'a do a google search for Sigma Trigger Tune ... maybe I'll get lucky.
Get your tigger done, or DO your trigger yourself - it's very rewarding, with a big retuen on your investment (of time, as there is no cost involved - assuming you have all the stuff = a set of punches, sharpening stones (I just used a diamond one for the initial work, and a fine ceramic one for the clean-up), a dremel with felt pads and polishing media, etc. )
Cheers!
I just did trigger jobs on two new M&Ps - I have no regrets, for they shoot great!
They are so smooth, with no "stacking" ... just smooth ... until a bit of resistance is felt. When that resistance comes, I surely DO anticipate what comes next - a nice crisp break and BOOM!
And so, anticipating and KNOWING when the trigger will break is a GOOD thing ... for me.
I guess it's more of an "expectation" rather than an "anticipation".
My Sigma is a different story. One always "anticipates" the shot, (I mean, we know it's gonna' happen sometime during the pull) but because the pull is so heavy, I can't judge WHEN it's about to break. I pull THAT trigger and while I'm pulling it I keep thinking, "OK ... here it comes ... nope, not yet ... OK ... probably now... I guess not ... nowwwww? ... I guess just a little more ... OK, it's gotta' happen soon ... Man, I can't believe it's such a crappy trigger ... just a liitle more I hope ... BOOM! And then, the brass bonks me off the forehead, to boot.
Long and stiff (easy gals ;-)) is no good for me. If someone were to post instructions on the Sigma pistol trigger such that the end result would feel like my new M&Ps, I would not hesitate to tear her apart and work her over. Hmmmm ... I ought'a do a google search for Sigma Trigger Tune ... maybe I'll get lucky.
Get your tigger done, or DO your trigger yourself - it's very rewarding, with a big retuen on your investment (of time, as there is no cost involved - assuming you have all the stuff = a set of punches, sharpening stones (I just used a diamond one for the initial work, and a fine ceramic one for the clean-up), a dremel with felt pads and polishing media, etc. )
Cheers!
it depends on how you shoot.
the trigger on my M&P has very little stacking and movement, once it stacks.
receintly i've noticed that i'm shooting tighter groups with a stock 5.5lb Glock (and today with a 8.5lb trigger) than I am with my 3.5-4lb hand tuned M&P 9 fullsize.
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the heavy stacking, and movement through that stacked glock trigger reminds me to refocus on my front sight i guess....helps me execute a smoother more controlled trigger pull.
to me, i have to pull my 3.5lb trigger much more lightly, come to a complete stop once i feel it stacks a hair, then as soon as I move again, it breaks. with the mushy 5.5lb Glock triggers...once i pause where it stacks then start again, the trigger just rolls through the stacking then breaks in 1 fluid motion...encountering that movement at the final pull weight is what helps me shoot better. encountering a heavier weight RIGHT where it breaks, promotes a flinch from me.
i'm sure it is possible to shoot a much lighter trigger, better....but i'm finding it difficult on the M&P.
it's a real lady to find out you're shooting stock glocks better than a gun you had all tuned up.
could be i'm just a weird shooter....but that's how it works for me.
cheers!
the trigger on my M&P has very little stacking and movement, once it stacks.
receintly i've noticed that i'm shooting tighter groups with a stock 5.5lb Glock (and today with a 8.5lb trigger) than I am with my 3.5-4lb hand tuned M&P 9 fullsize.
the heavy stacking, and movement through that stacked glock trigger reminds me to refocus on my front sight i guess....helps me execute a smoother more controlled trigger pull.
to me, i have to pull my 3.5lb trigger much more lightly, come to a complete stop once i feel it stacks a hair, then as soon as I move again, it breaks. with the mushy 5.5lb Glock triggers...once i pause where it stacks then start again, the trigger just rolls through the stacking then breaks in 1 fluid motion...encountering that movement at the final pull weight is what helps me shoot better. encountering a heavier weight RIGHT where it breaks, promotes a flinch from me.
i'm sure it is possible to shoot a much lighter trigger, better....but i'm finding it difficult on the M&P.
it's a real lady to find out you're shooting stock glocks better than a gun you had all tuned up.
could be i'm just a weird shooter....but that's how it works for me.
cheers!
The only thing that will help with flinching or anticipating the shot is range time. If you are aware of what your doing wrong then you can correct it. Also don't be too proud to have a friend or the range master watch you shoot. Sometimes a second pair of eyes can help spot a problem.
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I would suggest that range time is the cause for it since the flinch is the anticipation or attempted compensation of recoil. Dry-firing, however will cure it.BiggDogg said:
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I would suggest that range time is the cause for it since the flinch is the anticipation or attempted compensation of recoil. Dry-firing, however will cure it.[/quote]choochboost said:
I think dry firing is a great tool in identifying an issue and helping you understand it, but correcting it will only come with disciplined shooting and practice. Thinking that you can "trick" your mind into thinking the next round may be a click instead of a bang is a little foolish. First you have to realize, like all of us, your subconscious is smarter than you are. If you know it's going to go bang and you can work through the process with confidence, you will shoot better. It's all about discipline and muscle memory. Once you overcome the flinching, pushing, jerking, squeezing, and all our other bad habits and your stance, trigger pull, and follow through become second nature, that's when you can concentrate on the 10 ring. But that's just my opinion and everyone runs his or her drills differently. That's why we should all shoot with a group of friends so we can help and be helped with our shooting skills.
A good drill is to load some dummy rounds in with your live rounds while you are at the range. I take 2 dummy rounds and 4 live rounds and shake em up in my hands, then load the mag without looking. I load 2 mags for 12 rounds total.
If you have a friend shooting with you, have him load the mags.
The whole idea is to not know when you will get a live round or a dummy. Slowly shoot a group for accuracy with each mag. You will see where you are moving the gun when you get to the dummy rounds. Just eject the dummy round manualy and keep shooting. Figure out why you are moving the gun and correct it.
When your sights don't move off the target when you click a dummy round, you are doing it right.
I have been shooting competitivly for 15 years and I still do this drill at every practice. It really works well.
I got it from Saul Kirsch's book Perfect Practice.
Gringop
If you have a friend shooting with you, have him load the mags.
The whole idea is to not know when you will get a live round or a dummy. Slowly shoot a group for accuracy with each mag. You will see where you are moving the gun when you get to the dummy rounds. Just eject the dummy round manualy and keep shooting. Figure out why you are moving the gun and correct it.
When your sights don't move off the target when you click a dummy round, you are doing it right.
I have been shooting competitivly for 15 years and I still do this drill at every practice. It really works well.
I got it from Saul Kirsch's book Perfect Practice.
Gringop
gringop said:
+1....and get your friend a wiffle bat to hit you with, every time you flinch...you'll stop flinching real quick!
Seriouslly though, you get to work on getting rid of flinching habbits, while learning how to clear a malfunction quickly...all at the same time!
Also, know when to call it a day.
I see people all the time, that start getting tired and pulling shots....they get pissed and say, "I'm shooting till I fix this problem!" They'll keep flinching cause they're tired and their hands are sore...and do nothing but spend money on ammo, and re-enforce bad habbits.
Nothing wrong with calling it a day and coming back fresh next time.
That sounds like a great drill gringop, thanks. Also I use my laser sights as a visual tool to see what I'm doing wrong. Sometimes is hard to notice a small push or flinch, but the laser dot can really accentuate the issue on the target.
And I also agree, like synergy says, that you need to know when you burnt out at the range. I've watched people get more and more frustrated with each shot, when if they would just go have a soda and come back fresh or come back the next day their grouping would much improve. Fatigue and frustration can really wreck your range time.
And I also agree, like synergy says, that you need to know when you burnt out at the range. I've watched people get more and more frustrated with each shot, when if they would just go have a soda and come back fresh or come back the next day their grouping would much improve. Fatigue and frustration can really wreck your range time.
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