[stinx]

My agency was just in the very begining stages of issuing M/P to admin personal. Recently it was brought to our attention that if a shooter stages the trigger,then decides not to fire, the gun can still discharge. Upon reading the owners manual there is a paragraph that states exactly this could happen. I see this as a major issue. If an officer decides to fire, then the situation changes and the officer decides not to fire, the gun could still discharge. A agency near us had this exact situation happen. The suspect pointed a weapon at the officer, the officer drew his weapon and started to pull the trigger, when the suspect dropped his gun.The officer let off of the trigger and the suspect was taken into custody.

 

[deputy617]

I don't see it as much of an issue. I have always trained to not touch the trigger in any way until I've made the conscious decision that I intend to fire. I've pointed my sidearm at dozens of people over the course of a few years. None have caused me to put my finger on the trigger. If my finger touches the trigger... It's go time and nothing can happen that will prevent me from firing once that decision has been made. I hope it never happens. Be safe.

 

[lugnut]

Whether a LEO or civilian... the finger doesn't go onto the trigger until you have decided to fire the gun.. period, end of story. I'm sure that there could be a mechanical explaination of how a gun could fire after the gun was prepped and you take your finger off the trigger... however the bigger concern is under stress conditions... your "prep" might be enough to actually fire the gun unintentionally. Bad.

 

[coltman1985]

Finger outside the trigger guard until decision is made to fire.

 

[ToddG]

I don't have my manual at hand. Where does it say this?



How could the gun go off if you don't pull the trigger all the way through the break?

 

[Pappy1600]

I believe he maybe refering to the magazine diconnect feature on some M&P's, We opted for the mag disconnect on our guns and I have instructed our officers that the possibility still exists if the mag is dropped and the trigger is preloaded that the pistol will fire. Use this scenerio for weapon retention training.

 

[ToddG]

I believe he maybe refering to the magazine diconnect feature on some M&P's, We opted for the mag disconnect on our guns and I have instructed our officers that the possibility still exists if the mag is dropped and the trigger is preloaded that the pistol will fire. Use this scenerio for weapon retention training.

Pappy1600 -- Understood, thanks for the clarification. I just had the mag disconnect feature installed in my M&P. Playing around with it today at the range, I discovered this very thing. I see this as a miniscule concern, since the gun can only fire if the trigger is pulled before it's released past the tension point. As soon as your finger lets off the trigger, subsequent pressure on the trigger won't make the gun fire.



You'd pretty much have to do this on purpose to make it go bang.



From the OP's description, it sounded as if someone was suggesting that the M&P could go off spontaneously simply by easing one's finger off the trigger.

 

[lugnut]

I don't have my manual at hand. Where does it say this?



How could the gun go off if you don't pull the trigger all the way through the break?

Well I don't know that is actually could.. however if you can imagine "prepping" the trigger to the point where the sear just about disengaged with the striker. I guess it's conceivable that upon the release of the trigger that the sear could remain in place on the verge of firing... and a slight bump or movement of the gun could cause the striker to slip past that sear and go bang. I have never heard of this happening though... with any gun.

 

[snscott]

Seems to me that the firing pin safety would prevent that scenario. Once the trigger is released, the firing pin safety would be "re-engaged" and therefore would not allow the firing pin to move forward and strike the primer.

 

[lugnut]

Seems to me that the firing pin safety would prevent that scenario. Once the trigger is released, the firing pin safety would be "re-engaged" and therefore would not allow the firing pin to move forward and strike the primer.

Good point. The FP safety certainly "should" prevent that.

 

[stinx]

We had night shooting Thursday night. We tried to get the M/P to discharge like it states in the manual. We could not get them to do it. Our guns have no internal locks or mag disconnects. Maybee its only an issue with the guns with the mag disconnect.

 

[eightmillimeter]

Seems to me that the firing pin safety would prevent that scenario. Once the trigger is released, the firing pin safety would be "re-engaged" and therefore would not allow the firing pin to move forward and strike the primer.

My point exactly. After learning the guts of the M&P and how she works I have to say that this is probably not true. Even if the sear released the striker with the trigger returned to the forward position, the striker would stop short and the gun would have to go though immediate action to fire again, the firing pin safety would prevent a discharge. Also the mag disconnect would not have any effect on this because the firing pin block is independent the only thing that makes if function the way it does is the trigger bar and the spring between it and the rear sight in the inside of the slide.

 

[stinx]

Page 19 in the owners manual top of the page .Makes no refernce to guns with or without mag disconnect. "It has come to our attetnion that some users of Smith& Wesson handguns may stage the trigger in anticipation of firinga shot. Staging is the act of pulling the trigger rearward toward- stopping just short of- the point where the handgun fires. Such manipulation of the trigger can reduce the users control of the handgun and can result in an unintentional discharge. Furthermore if the user decides not to fire, release of the trigger from a position close to the firing point in the staging process could result in an unintentional discharge."

 

[ToddG]

I don't think that applies to the M&P, at least not in terms of a mechanical issue.



I've "staged" the trigger countless times without firing, and never seen a problem.

 

[eightmillimeter]

My money says that S&W is just covering their rear with that little clause in the manual. The design simply will not allow it to happen.

 

[ToddG]

I think it's a holdover from some specific issues they had with certain 3rd Gen Smiths that had been modified in a particular way.