[raz-0]

For DAN and bowie tactical. It seems USPSA passed a 3lb minimum DA trigger pull weight according to the minutes. Are trigger jobs generally staying above this (heck, does it even apply to striker fired guns)?



"Title: Production minimum Trigger Pull

Date of Motion: 11/15/06 04:25 PM

Closed:

Submitted by: President

Seconded by: Area4

Status: Posted

Result: Passed

Motion: Minimum trigger pull - Yes, 3 pounds in hammer fully down/decocked condition

Area1: Yes, Rollcall Requested

Area2: Yes, Rollcall Requested

Area3: Yes, Rollcall Requested

Area4: Yes

Area5: No, Rollcall Requested

Area6: No, Rollcall Requested

Area7: No, Rollcall Requested

Area8: No, Rollcall Requested

President: Yes, Rollcall Requested"

 

[Dan Burwell]

Unless requested mine stay above the 3# minimum. I'd 80% or so are 3.5# 10% 4-5# and 10% 2.25#



Now as for the application of the rule to stiker fired guns; I haven't the slightest idea. I don't get to shoot USPSA around here

 

[raz-0]

Well as I understand it, until the 2008 rule book is done, none of it is official.

 

[Dan Burwell]

I would just like to get an idea of how they plan on standardizing the actual measuring of the trigger pull so I can make for darn certain that no one with one of my guns gets bumped to open. I saw some good ideas on Enos' forum but as most everyone knows that has ever tried to measure the pull weight it is hard enough to get on a 1911 with a straight back motion let alone a pivioting one like the M&P, where location can change the measurement by a whole pound.

 

[vzontini]

Obviously no one knows how they will actually do it, but trying to think of ideas I came up with this one. This is based on the idea that we don't care what the trigger pull "is", only if it is greater than 3lbs when measured in a specific way.



Choose a given size and shape for the trigger actuator part. Say 1/2" round as an example to mimic an finger. Attach the weight to the arm, and the arm to the actuator. The total weight of the actuator, arm, and weight should be 3lbs.



NOTE: The trigger actuator should be shaped so that it will depress a Glock trigger safety. I think the Glock trigger safety is the smallest so it it works on a Glock I'd think it would work on an M&P or XD.



Create an "L" out of wood and clamp this "L" to a sturdy table top creating a vertical surface rising 2-3' off the table top.



Basic Procedure: Insert actuator rod into trigger guard. Place sights of gun against surface of "L" and lift the rod/arm/weight while maintaining contact with the vertical surface with the sights. The gun should be able to suspend the weight 6" off of the bottom of the "L" without tripping the action. Repeat 3 times.



Feel free to poke holes.

 

[Bowie Tactical]

I do all my triggers at a minimum of 4 pounds. I won't take the chance of the gun being used in a defensive situation and a light trigger is a problem. In court and just for feel. Under 4 pounds is to easy to get on it under the chemical dump and shoot with out really wanting to. I see this all the time. I know you should not have your finger on the trigger unless you are going to shoot, but what is right and what people really do is two different things. People under stress tend to search for the trigger I think it is a comfort thing. Also I know that 4 pounds will not really stop this but the court EXPERTS have kinda feel around 4 pounds as being an acceptable weight. Sorry this is so long but it is good to know. CHECK 360 David Bowie

 

[vzontini]

Guns used for defense work are one thing. This thread is about guns used for competition and for most people competition only. For competition use it is common to have guns with reliable triggers in the 2lb range. I love the near perfect 1.5lb trigger pull on my Open gun, but it wouldn't be what I'd want on a self-defense pistol.

 

[Bigbadaboom]

It's a stupid phucking rule and USPSA is pissing off a lot of people with it.

 

[Roger]

It's a stupid phucking rule and USPSA is pissing off a lot of people with it.

So, tell us how you really feel about it

I know how you feel. I've emailed Bond for Area 6 and let him know my feelings also.

 

[TBoliv]

[quote name='Bigbadaboom']It's a stupid phucking rule and USPSA is pissing off a lot of people with it.

So, tell us how you really feel about it

I know how you feel. I've emailed Bond for Area 6 and let him know my feelings also.[/quote]



Mike Voigt shoots here at my local club, want me to see if I can get him to change his mind on the issue?

 

[vzontini]

I really think that if the USPSA BOD could have imagined readily available 1.5lb Glock triggers when they were deciding on the US Production rules they would have picked a minimum trigger weight day one. You can improve a Sig, Beretta, or CZ DA/SA trigger, but I can't imagine that they will ever approach the Glock triggers that are available now. Even for the workable DA/SA guns 5lb/2lb is pushing the current envelope and 6lb/3lb is closer to the norm.



I do have a problem with adding the min trigger weight rule this late in the game. IPSC had a min trigger pull rule and USPSA decided that we weren't going to have one when the US Production division was formed. Now the sport does what it always does and maximizes advantage within the rules - that's what practical shooting does!



The only compelling argument I have heard for the new rule is that it will "grow the sport" by attracting more folks with "service autos" to the division. That is a noble idea. But my response would be that IDPA SSP has no minimum trigger pull rule. IDPA went through a major rulebook rewrite last year and didn't see an issue with SSP and they are the "defensive guys". End of story.

 

[Roger]

Just another solution to a problem that does not exist. TBoliv, sure tell Mike that he needs to fix this. I know several area 6 votes that will not go his way come election time.

 

[Bigbadaboom]

[quote name='Roger'][quote name='Bigbadaboom']It's a stupid phucking rule and USPSA is pissing off a lot of people with it.

So, tell us how you really feel about it

I know how you feel. I've emailed Bond for Area 6 and let him know my feelings also.[/quote]



Mike Voigt shoots here at my local club, want me to see if I can get him to change his mind on the issue?

[/quote]



Yeah!! Ask him. And while you're at it ask his ass why he pissed and moaned on national T.V. (On Shooting USA on the OLN) about the Bianchi challenge mandaiting a 2lb. trigger pull. OH!! nevermind, he shoots open in that competition and doesn't want to have to use a 2 lb. trigger. When it directly effects him he doesn't like it.



For those who say "There's no production guns sold with a 1.5 lb. trigger" I say "So what!!!!" If USPSA is going to start holding IPSC rule matches in the U.S. as Voight published in "Front Sight" then the people who want trigger pull weight limits can shoot IPSC rule matches where they already have a 5 lb. limit. We don't need two shooting sports with the same rules. Also, if you want a box rule then shoot IPSC or IDPA.



An accurate, fare, consistant pull test is almost impossible with a pivoting trigger. Ask Bowie or Dan or any other competent gunsmith. IPSC has arbitrations overturn trigger pull tests all the time.

 

[ysued]

OK, my $.02



I am in favor of "CLARIFICATION" of Production Rules and closing the Loopholes!!



Admit it boys, us IPSC Shooters are gamers by nature and we like to tweak Guns!!



The problem with Trigger puyll limits is:



1-As stated at the Brian Enos Forum, if you take one gun (Production Division Legal), ont Trigger Pull Gauge and give it to 10 different Gunsmiths with specific instructions on how to measure the Trigger Pull, you will definitely get 10 different Trigger Pull Weights!!



2- but OTOH, I undesrstand the USPSA position on trigger Pulls!! When new guys come into a match, they now feel that they need to pay $200 for a 2Lb Trigger Job to be able to compete in USPSA and they just pack up ad leave!!







On the rest of PD Rules:



I don't believe that the ruling on allowing To Mill Slides to Fir Bomar Sights was right!!



In all reality Bomar sights Milled/Melted will not give you any "Real" advantage, IMHO it's all perceived, but i just don't like it!! IMHO, when you take a Bridgeport to a Glock, XD or M&P Slide, you are making an external modification!!!



The rules need cleaning up and to be calrified!!



Remember, these rules we are talking about is the 2008 book, it will be released in Jan 2007 for us the members to give our feedback to our Area Directors, so liek you all said before, call, E-mail or write to your Area Director and give them a piece of your mind!! I know I will, I'll call Manny Bragg (Area 3) next week and I'll have a little Pow-Wow with him!!



BTW, I tried lookig for a thread about this at Brians, can you give me a link for it??



Thanks!!

 

[Bigbadaboom]

OK, my $.02



I am in favor of "CLARIFICATION" of Production Rules and closing the Loopholes!!



Admit it boys, us IPSC Shooters are gamers by nature and we like to tweak Guns!!



The problem with Trigger puyll limits is:



1-As stated at the Brian Enos Forum, if you take one gun (Production Division Legal), ont Trigger Pull Gauge and give it to 10 different Gunsmiths with specific instructions on how to measure the Trigger Pull, you will definitely get 10 different Trigger Pull Weights!!



2- but OTOH, I undesrstand the USPSA position on trigger Pulls!! When new guys come into a match, they now feel that they need to pay $200 for a 2Lb Trigger Job to be able to compete in USPSA and they just pack up ad leave!!







On the rest of PD Rules:



I don't believe that the ruling on allowing To Mill Slides to Fir Bomar Sights was right!!



In all reality Bomar sights Milled/Melted will not give you any "Real" advantage, IMHO it's all perceived, but i just don't like it!! IMHO, when you take a Bridgeport to a Glock, XD or M&P Slide, you are making an external modification!!!



The rules need cleaning up and to be calrified!!



Remember, these rules we are talking about is the 2008 book, it will be released in Jan 2007 for us the members to give our feedback to our Area Directors, so liek you all said before, call, E-mail or write to your Area Director and give them a piece of your mind!! I know I will, I'll call Manny Bragg (Area 3) next week and I'll have a little Pow-Wow with him!!



BTW, I tried lookig for a thread about this at Brians, can you give me a link for it??



Thanks!!

Here ya go:



http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...c=41702&hl=