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I'm carrying Corbon DPX right now. And I really like it. But I'm trying to expand my horizons even further still.

Probably going to pick up some Rangers to try next, among others as well. But I'm curious how ya'll feel about the TAPs.

They look cool... but that doesn't matter.
 

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That's what I have for defensive use.
 

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Come on now Doc makes a list for a reason..





The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use:



9 mm:

Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)

Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)

Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP

Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)

Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)

Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)

Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)

Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)

Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)

Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP

Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)



.40 S&W:

Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)

Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP

Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)

Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)

Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)

Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)

Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)

Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)

Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP

Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)



.45 ACP:

Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)

Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)

Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)

Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP

Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)

Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)



Notes:

-- Obviously, clone loads using the same bullet at the same velocity work equally well (ie. Black Hills ammo using Gold Dot bullets, Corbon loads using Barnes XPB bullets, etc…)



-- Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 10 or 15 years ago. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST, as well as the Speer Gold Dot; likewise Winchester Ranger Talons are far superior to the old Black Talons or civilian SXT's.
 

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Since you don't list your source I will.

http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tact...c;f=78;t=000964



The human body is not a block of gelatin. That stuff is good for a laugh and as a minor data point but nothing more.



The TAP round is fairly new but Hornady has an excellent reputation for their bullet shape and consistency and the round itself has almost no variation.



Here is a Guns and Ammo and a Handguns magazine article on the various TAP rounds which you can take for whatever you think of such articles. Personally I believe it is a good round that has not been around long enough to be tested in real world use.



http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ammunition/tap_010506/



http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunition/tap_101405/
 

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I have used TAP ammo in my 1911s for carry and home defense. +P loads are not my favorite but they feed relaiably in my pistols. Put 100+ through one without hiccup. Gold Dots are my preference but they are a challenge to find in 230gr weights for some reason. Gold Dots also happen to be the round of choice by most of my local LE agencies so I carry that for any possible litigation reasons.
 

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That'll show me.



San Diego is one of the few Police departments that still use 147 Gr 9mm. It was all the rage years ago. None of the gelatin silliness is very relevant to the many bullet wounds I have seen. The human body is just made up of too many things and circumstances vary greatly. Controlled experiments into something the same consistency over and over again have little to do with real life. People (and ammo manufacturers) generally use it to confirm pre-existing beliefs. I've read the articles from the Journal btw. If you want to get a rough idea of what a round might do then OK but people post this stuff like its gospel.
 

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Steelshooter said:
...San Diego is one of the few Police departments that still use 147 Gr 9mm...
And your point is???





Steelshooter said:
...None of the gelatin silliness is very relevant to the many bullet wounds I have seen...
Actually it is. You just don't know it.





Steelshooter said:
...Controlled experiments into something the same consistency over and over again have little to do with real life...
Controlled experiments like this allow us to predict what will happen in real life. These predictions are not always exactly right; but with a high correlational value, we can predict with a very high success rate.
 

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My point is that the linked article on 147 grain 9mm is out of date and not relevant.



Gelatin is a minor data point. If you think differently thats your opinion. Mine is different.
 

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Steelshooter said:
If you want to get a rough idea of what a round might do then OK but people post this stuff like its gospel.
There are too many variables to absolutely predict anything, but by setting high standards for our controlled experiments we can have a reasonable expectation of a bullet's performance. The results may vary slightly, but gel has shown to be a very good test medium and tissue simulant in comparison to actual shootings.



Steelshooter said:
My point is that the linked article on 147 grain 9mm is out of date and not relevant.
Out of date and irrelevant?
You mean because the article is several years old? That round has continued to improve so if anything better performance can be expected.
 

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Steelshooter said:
Tissue. Not bone or organs. Notice how the bullet generally follows a straight line in gel?
The SD tests examined actual shootings that included rounds fired into human torsos (tissue/organs). However, according to the extensive RCMP tests, ribs do not play a significant role in hindering a projectile's performance.
 

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Steelshooter said:
My point is that the linked article on 147 grain 9mm is out of date and not relevant...
Here is where you are misinformed.

The article is relevant. The article states that there is a correlation between gel data and actual street shooting data. This means we can predict what a bullet will do in human tissue, by what it does in gel.



It does not say that the gel data will tell us exactly what a bullet will do in human tissue. Unfortunately, the only way to test this is to shoot a great number of people. Then we run into the problem of ethics. There would probably be a few upset folks if were to do that. So we use street data that we have; and we compare it to gel data that we gather. That is the best we can do under the circumstances.
 

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Long story short I have seen a great number of people shot with about everything you can imagine and in my opinion gelatin does not simulate that very well. If people want to use it in lieu of other data OI think people take it far too seriously. The military has reams of data on gunshot wounds.
 

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Steelshooter said:
Long story short I have seen a great number of people shot with about everything you can imagine and in my opinion gelatin does not simulate that very well. If people want to use it in lieu of other data OI think people take it far too seriously. The military has reams of data on gunshot wounds.
Since we are talking about handgun wounds here:

What personal experience/data could you relate to us that would contradict our data from gel tests?
 

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Slick26, my highly scientific studies of XTP bullets and ammo have yielded this:

-It is very accurate; it's probably the most accurate bullet design for pistols I've tried.

-It penetrates well.

-It doesn't expand as well as competitive designs.
 

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20 + years in the Marines, multiple combat deployments.



Every theory named and listed has strong adherents on one side and those who tear them down on the other. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. As I said earlier I use what i use but am not saying it is the ultimate answer. Just what I am comfortable with carrying. But these nice neat Gelatin tests....c'mon.



YukonGlocker said:
[quote name='Steelshooter']Long story short I have seen a great number of people shot with about everything you can imagine and in my opinion gelatin does not simulate that very well. If people want to use it in lieu of other data OI think people take it far too seriously. The military has reams of data on gunshot wounds.
Since we are talking about handgun wounds here:

What personal experience/data could you relate to us that would contradict our data from gel tests?[/quote]
 

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Agreed. From what little I have seen of TAP it corresponds to these statments including decent but not great expansion. i would go for a lower than maximum grain on TAP for better expansion.



YukonGlocker said:
Slick26, my highly scientific studies of XTP bullets and ammo have yielded this:

-It is very accurate; it's probably the most accurate bullet design for pistols I've tried.

-It penetrates well.

-It doesn't expand as well as competitive designs.
 
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