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jkv45 you are the one making the claim, thus the onus is on you to prove it.

I have read and seen multiple cases where handloading one's own self defense ammo was used against them in court, but nothing regarding trigger jobs. I'm not saying it's never happened, I've just seen people make this claim, yet NO ONE EVER PROVIDES PROOF.

I'm not trying to come off as a prick, just playing Devils advocate. I am starting to change my personal philosophy that carry guns should remain stock outside of simple modifications like sights, as too many accidents and AD's often occurr with modified guns. But still, if you are making the claim, I would hope you can reference the proof to support it. If you can't, then it's just more of the same ol internet BS.
 

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Are you guys serious?

OK. If you look at exactly what I said, it was that modifying your gun or ammo can "cause legal problems" and "become an issue" for you in court. I didn't say it would get you convicted, just that it's another factor that could be used against you.

Some legal opinions on gun modification -

https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2018/02/massad-ayoob-gun-hair-trigger/

https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/an-attorney-reflects-on-gun-modifications

https://www.concealedcarry.com/safety/should-you-modify-your-carry-gun/

https://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/44-our-journal/294-gun-modifications?highlight=WyJndW4iLCJndW4ncyIsIm1vZGlmaWNhdGlvbnMiLCJndW4gbW9kaWZpY2F0aW9ucyJd

https://americanhandgunner.com/understanding-hair-trigger-issues/

Trial where modifications became an issue -

Santibanes v. Tomball Texas

"Finally, the Court takes note of the modification to Sergeant Williams' weapon. In particular, he initially stated that his weapon—a Glock brand 21, .45 caliber pistol—had not been modified. However, after forensic testing and inspection, it was revealed that the weapon had, in fact, been modified in three separate respects. The relevant modification was to the weapon's trigger connector.12 The record also shows that Sergeant Williams, prior to the
[654 F.Supp.2d 606]

incident, replaced the pistol's 5 pound trigger connector with a Glock 3.5 pound trigger connector. Forensic testing determined that this modification reduced the force needed to pull the trigger to approximately 4.5 pounds, making it easier to fire the weapon. In light of these considerations, whether Sergeant Williams, in fact, intended to discharge his weapon is an issue that cannot and should not be resolved at the summary judgment stage."

SANTIBANES v. CITY OF TOMBALL, TEX. | Leagle.com


Modifications are just another thing that can and will be used against you in a court of law if you are being charged.
 

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Are you guys serious?

OK. If you look at exactly what I said, it was that modifying your gun or ammo can "cause legal problems" and "become an issue" for you in court. I didn't say it would get you convicted, just that it's another factor that could be used against you.

Some legal opinions on gun modification -

https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2018/02/massad-ayoob-gun-hair-trigger/

https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/an-attorney-reflects-on-gun-modifications

https://www.concealedcarry.com/safety/should-you-modify-your-carry-gun/

https://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/44-our-journal/294-gun-modifications?highlight=WyJndW4iLCJndW4ncyIsIm1vZGlmaWNhdGlvbnMiLCJndW4gbW9kaWZpY2F0aW9ucyJd

https://americanhandgunner.com/understanding-hair-trigger-issues/

Trial where modifications became an issue -

Santibanes v. Tomball Texas

"Finally, the Court takes note of the modification to Sergeant Williams' weapon. In particular, he initially stated that his weapon—a Glock brand 21, .45 caliber pistol—had not been modified. However, after forensic testing and inspection, it was revealed that the weapon had, in fact, been modified in three separate respects. The relevant modification was to the weapon's trigger connector.12 The record also shows that Sergeant Williams, prior to the
[654 F.Supp.2d 606]

incident, replaced the pistol's 5 pound trigger connector with a Glock 3.5 pound trigger connector. Forensic testing determined that this modification reduced the force needed to pull the trigger to approximately 4.5 pounds, making it easier to fire the weapon. In light of these considerations, whether Sergeant Williams, in fact, intended to discharge his weapon is an issue that cannot and should not be resolved at the summary judgment stage."

SANTIBANES v. CITY OF TOMBALL, TEX. | Leagle.com


Modifications are just another thing that can and will be used against you in a court of law if you are being charged.
Is this a situation where Sgt. Williams was claiming accidental discharge?
 

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very good reading. To my layman’s mind. The core issue is lightening the trigger out of factory specs more than an aftermarket trigger it’s self.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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jkv45
Thank you for providing the information. I will look into it further.
You bet.

My point is really that prosecutors will use anything possible - type of gun, caliber, modifications, type of ammo or custom ammo, and even actions like carefully aiming or cocking the hammer on a revolver - against you in court if you are being charged.

It's impossible to avoid all of them, but trigger modifications are certainly one thing that would be brought up. Just something to consider before doing modifications of any kind.
 

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Is this a situation where Sgt. Williams was claiming accidental discharge?
He did claim it was an accident. I read the whole court brief. The note about the trigger connector bieng changed had no negative impact on the Seargents case. In fact it may have helped him.

I am still waiting for any case where changing trigger parts or a trigger job has been a negative factor in any justified self defense shooting.
 
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Is it a carry gun?

Just know that modifying the trigger and/or trigger weight can cause you legal problems in the event that you need to use it.

I'm not thrilled with the trigger on my M&P45 2.0 Compact (it's been back the S&W for work) but I don't want to make any changes to the trigger design or release weight because it's my carry gun.
I have had two M&P .45's. Both triggers have been very gritty...both in feel and sound. Was yours that way?
 

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I have had two M&P .45's. Both triggers have been very gritty...both in feel and sound. Was yours that way?
It's been a while, so I don't recall exactly, but I do remember the take-up travel was rough and inconsistent.

I sent it to S&W and got it back better, but still not great. The work order said something about the trigger being heavy or something - not what I described in my detailed note that I enclosed. Overall it went from a 5 out of 10 to a 7 out of 10 if 10 is a great trigger.

I have many different guns with significantly different trigger travel and weight , so I just tend to adapt. In my mind I just keep the trigger moving smoothly until the gun fires - no matter how much travel or weight there is to overcome.

Many people disagree, but I don't carry a modified or tricked-out pistol for my EDC. Just one more thing to deal with if an event ever presents itself and I need to defend myself - physically and legally.
 

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He did claim it was an accident. I read the whole court brief. The note about the trigger connector bieng changed had no negative impact on the Seargents case. In fact it may have helped him.

I am still waiting for any case where changing trigger parts or a trigger job has been a negative factor in any justified self defense shooting.
jkv45 posted a couple links a couple years ago when he and I were debating that topic. He found a couple cops that had issues because of trigger work on their revolvers.
Like you I've never heard of a personal defense case that went south only because of trigger work, all my carry guns are modified.
My attorney asked if I shoot more accurately with an action job, I said yes. He said so you spent money to make sure you hit the target and not something or someone next to the target? I laughed and said, thank you.

Search jkv45's posts a couple years ago to find the links and see if they change your mind. If I remember he was parroting mass ayob(sp) so you might try that as a search term.
 

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(SNIP)

Search jkv45's posts a couple years ago to find the links and see if they change your mind. If I remember he was parroting mass ayob(sp) so you might try that as a search term.
Parroting my ass!

It's a legitimate concern. Just more ammo for the Prosecutor if you find yourself in court.

Not sure why you can't just give your opinion on a topic without including some type of dig or insult, but I guess we are used to it by now.
 

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Well, it has been 2 years now... So let the hand-wringing commence!
 

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Parroting my ass!

It's a legitimate concern. Just more ammo for the Prosecutor if you find yourself in court.

Not sure why you can't just give your opinion on a topic without including some type of dig or insult, but I guess we are used to it by now.
Drop the drama level back a couple notch's, there was no dig or insult.

You parrot what that guy says, what is so hard to understand about that?

BTW: That is an opinion not an insult, please learn the difference.
I can post a screen shot of the definition of "opinion". If you need to see it, just let me know?

I gave the poster a way to try to find the topic so they could make up their own mind, if that isn't PC enough for you, excuse me, sorry you got your feelings hurt.
 

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Ya - you're sooo innocent...just your opinion...and a bit more...as usual.

I could care less about you and your "opinions" but plenty of member have left here because they got sick of the constant crap you toss out.
 

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Ya - you're sooo innocent...just your opinion...and a bit more...as usual.

I could care less about you and your "opinions" but plenty of member have left here because they got sick of the constant crap you toss out.
Are you done now?

ETA; since you want "a bit more". I must to ask...........
For the record, exactly how much less, could you care about me and my opinions?
 
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