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Discussion Starter #1
I did not want to hijack another thread with this...



What has concerned me is that, yes, there are a lot of "I have a problem" threads, but whereas you would expect to see a sprinkling of many different, one-off issues here and there, instead we are seeing people report over and over again the same small subset of issues. That it is a very small subset is a VERY good thing, let me just say that right up front.



General, random "one of kind" issues here and there you can attribute to "well, one lemon came off the line, it is to be expected". Several different people having the exact same problem(s), now that suggests there is a fundamental flaw somewhere, either in the design itself, or in the materials or processes being used to manufacture it. With the MP, I think it is the later that is the culprit.



To keep from sounding like I am picking on the MP, I can use the example of the early XD's. More and more people started reporting rust issues and SA got the message and switched to the Melonite finish. That is an example where the common reporting of the exact same problem by many people showed that there was a fundamental flaw in the manufacturing process of the XD. Now, even there, not EVERYONE experienced rust issues, but enough did to indicate that it was a real problem.



And we all know S&W has been tweaking the MP since it was released. You have to give them credit for that. And yes, I am sure that many of you have experienced absolute 100% reliability with your individual MP(s), but the fact that we keep hearing of the exact same (small set of) problems indicates there are still issues that S&W needs to resolve. These are not "isolated issues", I think they can be correctly labelled as "common issues". That does not mean every single MP will experience one or any of these issues, but there appears to still be a sizeable chance that yours will.



Now, lest you think me a "hater", let me add that I really like shooting my MP40 -- I just don't trust it enough (yet) to regularly carry it as a self-defense weapon. I'm sure others will say they feel exactly the opposite. For me, after getting a new frame from S&W on mine, I still have this nagging dread that the next magazine I put in it is going to be the one that starts the mag drop problem on this one. Trust is easily lost and hard to regain.



The reason I post this is because it seems like, lately, this wonderful forum (that is my favorite, by the way) has started to develop this attitude of "Aw, quit your bitchin'". We have to remember that the new MP owners posting problems are looking for help from the M&P community here. So when someone says "I am experiencing this issue", it is not all that helpful to them for us to respond with "Yeah, well, mine has been perfect through X,000 rounds".



This will probably upset someone, so, flame away I guess.
 

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There is a difference between someone having a problem and wanting to find a fix, and some that appear to just want to rant over and over!! If it is legit than by all means let us help out any way we can!! If not?
 

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coltman1985 said:
There is a difference between someone having a problem and wanting to find a fix, and some that appear to just want to rant over and over!! If it is legit than by all means let us help out any way we can!! If not?


+100
 

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Ranting time

I don't think I've yet seen an unreasonable, pointless or otherwise baseless "rant" or complaint on this forum about the M&P. In the trouble reports I've read, people are understandably and genuinely upset that the pistol they just paid good money for, a pistol they're intending to use to protect themselves and their families, a pistol being advertised under the banner of "reliability for life and liberty", is in more than a few cases proving to be of questionable reliability.



In the specific case of the mag drop problem, the frustration of those with pistols experiencing this problem is compounded by reportedly having to send their M&P back two or three times to S&W to then find out that the problem has still not been corrected. This is my first hand experience as well, as my compacts are now being serviced again for the same problem. Have I given up on the M&P and S&W? No, not yet. I also have a full-size 40 M&P that has been flawless in operation since day one, so I know that S&W can do better than what I've seen with my two compacts. However, that is not to say that my patience is not wearing thin, though.



Say what you want about "ranting over and over", but I believe it is beneficial and important for everyone to know what issues people are having with the M&P line, thereby helping S&W to understand and fix these critical problems, which will hopefully, in turn, help to make an even better and more reliable product.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Re: Ranting time

APismoClam said:
I know that S&W can do better
Yes, I agree with this statement. My M&P15T rifle is simply outstanding in fit, finish, and function. We know people on this forum who have M&P pistols that have been completely reliable out of the box for hundreds if not thousands of rounds. Combined with the early reports of "poor finishes" and "tool marks" on the new M&P45, I think what we may be seeing here is that S&W is a victim of their own success. They're having to "burn the midnight oil" to churn out enough MP pistols to meet the demand. Sadly, in the fire drill to meet demand pressures (in ANY industry or business), one of the first things to slip is Quality Control.



I fully believe the M&P pistol's basic design is fantastic. I love it. I just wish I could trust mine. Each box of ammo I send down range without a hitch, moves it slowly up a notch on my trust scale.



APismoClam said:
I believe it is beneficial and important for everyone to know what issues people are having with the M&P line, thereby helping S&W to understand and fix these critical problems, which will hopefully, in turn, help to make an even better and more reliable product.
Absolutely agree with this as well and my example of the XD rust issue proves this point. When enough people report the same problem "over and over", one hopes that S&W will be looking into how to resolve the glitch.



People want to "rant" sometimes, among friends and fellow enthusiasts who share a communal camaraderie like we have here, just to feel better, especially after spending so much money on something like this. I think part of the reason people feel inclined to get very upset over issues is because guns are one of those rare products that you usually can't just take back to the store and exchange for another. If one could (easily) do that when they had a problem, I'd bet there would be a lot fewer "complaint" postings. Can you imagine what it would be like if any time your car had a problem you had to send it all the way back to the factory for repairs?



I don't think most people are ranting that the M&P pistols are bad in general, they're just upset that the one they got has problems. Luck of the draw.
 

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snscott said:
Now, lest you think me a "hater", let me


Funny how urban hip hop terms manifest themselves into mainstream america. Proves how influential the urban/hip hop culture is on our society.









Anyway i agree with your post.
 

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snscott said:
We have to remember that the new MP owners posting problems are looking for help from the M&P community here. So when someone says "I am experiencing this issue", it is not all that helpful to them for us to respond with "Yeah, well, mine has been perfect through X,000 rounds".


My full size 9 has been 100% right out the box. Quit your bitchin'



jk. sorry couldnt resist. Good post snscott.
 

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Let me first say that my M&P9, and my wife's M&P9 compact have had NO major problems, especially with the problem of dropping mags. That said, I must admit that reading all of these stories about mags falling out have put a cloud of doubt in my mind about the M&P being a daily carried personal defense weapon. If there is an inherit problem with the way the magazine is fit and secured in the gun I would hope that S&W would have the courtesy to notify present owners of this potential life-threatening flaw. It seems that S&W is ignoring all of the posts on this Forum about the "Mag Drop" problem, and if you think you have a problem they just want you to return the gun so they can check it out. I haven't counted all of the posts about this "Problem", but it seems to me that there are enough to warrant some sort of response by S&W. Just my 2 cents.........
 

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Arizona Smithshooter said:
Let me first say that my M&P9, and my wife's M&P9 compact have had NO major problems, especially with the problem of dropping mags. That said, I must admit that reading all of these stories about mags falling out have put a cloud of doubt in my mind about the M&P being a daily carried personal defense weapon. If there is an inherit problem with the way the magazine is fit and secured in the gun I would hope that S&W would have the courtesy to notify present owners of this potential life-threatening flaw. It seems that S&W is ignoring all of the posts on this Forum about the "Mag Drop" problem, and if you think you have a problem they just want you to return the gun so they can check it out. I haven't counted all of the posts about this "Problem", but it seems to me that there are enough to warrant some sort of response by S&W. Just my 2 cents.........


Keep in mind that you are hearing all the horror stories about the m&p's.... More people will post about the problems they have with there m&p then the great things about the m&p... keep that in mind..



You need to take everything you read on forums with a grain of salt
 

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And another stop whining thing....

If you ask for help, don't dismiss the help offered as bunk until you have tried the suggestions. There is a wealth of knowledge here and if you don't like what you hear, just say thanks and move on; don't complain that you don't do this, or have never had that, or whatever!
 

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coltman1985 said:
There is a difference between someone having a problem and wanting to find a fix, and some that appear to just want to rant over and over!! If it is legit than by all means let us help out any way we can!! If not?


I don't think any of the posts that I have read indicating problems fall into the ranting category Including sncott's. :roll:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
PPCmaster said:
Keep in mind that you are hearing all the horror stories about the m&p's.... More people will post about the problems they have with there m&p then the great things about the m&p... keep that in mind..
True, people with problems are obviously more likely to post about those issues, and besides, who would want to visit a forum with just a bunch of "my gun shot great again today" posts?
And I think most new owners reporting problems here do take remedy suggestions to heart.



The important point, and I think it is a significant point, is that we are seeing a pattern of a tiny handful of common problems. It is great that there are only a few recurring issues. Those issues just happen to be very common, which means S&W needs to be diligently looking hard into resolving those few issues.



If they do that, you know what they will have? Even more so than the XD, with a MP that finally has a strong reliability record -- S&W will have a true "Glock Killer". An American-made, super-ergonomic, sexy-looking, highly-reliable pistol.




I absolutely want them to succeed here.
 

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Just a quick comment on the mag drop issue. After reading about this mag problem when it first became an issue, I inspected both the 9 and the 9 Compact and noticed two things that bothered me. First is the amount of free play there is when the mag is inserted into the magwell, and second is the small amount of metal to metal contact between the mag release tab and the wall of the magazine. It takes just a small amount of movement in the tab to release the magazine. The combination of wear on the tab and slop in the magwell could be a factor in magazines falling out of the gun. Just my opinion....
 

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Frankly, I'm happy to see people whine. It helps not to know I'm the only one with the mag problem. OF course, I shot about 100-120 rounds today with no mag problem at all. Go figure.
 

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Intermittant failures are much worse than those you can count on! :roll:
 

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mikeinkansas.... well, it's a great thing to have this forum, then, isn't it! Nice to have you here! You seem to have a lot more experience here than myself.



Sometimes ignorance is bliss and sometimes it leads to disaster. Having some awareness, some information, a broader perspective of matters that may possibly impact YOU is a very good thing indeed! Be careful out there and realize that sometimes what's least expected... arrives at your doorstep! If you can be halfway prepared to anticipate it, you're better off than not.
 

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DHart said:
mikeinkansas.... well, it's a great thing to have this forum, then, isn't it! Nice to have you here! You seem to have a lot more experience here than myself.



Sometimes ignorance is bliss and sometimes it leads to disaster. Having some awareness, some information, a broader perspective of matters that may possibly impact YOU is a very good thing indeed! Be careful out there and realize that sometimes what's least expected... arrives at your doorstep! If you can be halfway prepared to anticipate it, you're better off than not.


+1 on that Hartster. We ARE very fortunate to have this forum. It provides excellent, fair and balanced information in a very courteous and comprehensive manner. Mike, you could do a lot worse. The assistance some members have rendered in helping to identify and solve repeated problems for the benefit of all, has been IMHO nothing short of outstanding. And I for one appreciate it very much.

 
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