I'm with you. We should be able to expect a gun that can run form S&W, and for a big time company like S&W they should get the finish right as well, so I also support those who have issues with the finish on their 45s.
Whiney Babies or Real Issues?
I did not want to hijack another thread with this...
What has concerned me is that, yes, there are a lot of "I have a problem" threads, but whereas you would expect to see a sprinkling of many different, one-off issues here and there, instead we are seeing people report over and over again the same small subset of issues. That it is a very small subset is a VERY good thing, let me just say that right up front.
General, random "one of kind" issues here and there you can attribute to "well, one lemon came off the line, it is to be expected". Several different people having the exact same problem(s), now that suggests there is a fundamental flaw somewhere, either in the design itself, or in the materials or processes being used to manufacture it. With the MP, I think it is the later that is the culprit.
To keep from sounding like I am picking on the MP, I can use the example of the early XD's. More and more people started reporting rust issues and SA got the message and switched to the Melonite finish. That is an example where the common reporting of the exact same problem by many people showed that there was a fundamental flaw in the manufacturing process of the XD. Now, even there, not EVERYONE experienced rust issues, but enough did to indicate that it was a real problem.
And we all know S&W has been tweaking the MP since it was released. You have to give them credit for that. And yes, I am sure that many of you have experienced absolute 100% reliability with your individual MP(s), but the fact that we keep hearing of the exact same (small set of) problems indicates there are still issues that S&W needs to resolve. These are not "isolated issues", I think they can be correctly labelled as "common issues". That does not mean every single MP will experience one or any of these issues, but there appears to still be a sizeable chance that yours will.
Now, lest you think me a "hater", let me add that I really like shooting my MP40 -- I just don't trust it enough (yet) to regularly carry it as a self-defense weapon. I'm sure others will say they feel exactly the opposite. For me, after getting a new frame from S&W on mine, I still have this nagging dread that the next magazine I put in it is going to be the one that starts the mag drop problem on this one. Trust is easily lost and hard to regain.
The reason I post this is because it seems like, lately, this wonderful forum (that is my favorite, by the way) has started to develop this attitude of "Aw, quit your bitchin'". We have to remember that the new MP owners posting problems are looking for help from the M&P community here. So when someone says "I am experiencing this issue", it is not all that helpful to them for us to respond with "Yeah, well, mine has been perfect through X,000 rounds".
This will probably upset someone, so, flame away I guess.
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What has concerned me is that, yes, there are a lot of "I have a problem" threads, but whereas you would expect to see a sprinkling of many different, one-off issues here and there, instead we are seeing people report over and over again the same small subset of issues. That it is a very small subset is a VERY good thing, let me just say that right up front.
General, random "one of kind" issues here and there you can attribute to "well, one lemon came off the line, it is to be expected". Several different people having the exact same problem(s), now that suggests there is a fundamental flaw somewhere, either in the design itself, or in the materials or processes being used to manufacture it. With the MP, I think it is the later that is the culprit.
To keep from sounding like I am picking on the MP, I can use the example of the early XD's. More and more people started reporting rust issues and SA got the message and switched to the Melonite finish. That is an example where the common reporting of the exact same problem by many people showed that there was a fundamental flaw in the manufacturing process of the XD. Now, even there, not EVERYONE experienced rust issues, but enough did to indicate that it was a real problem.
And we all know S&W has been tweaking the MP since it was released. You have to give them credit for that. And yes, I am sure that many of you have experienced absolute 100% reliability with your individual MP(s), but the fact that we keep hearing of the exact same (small set of) problems indicates there are still issues that S&W needs to resolve. These are not "isolated issues", I think they can be correctly labelled as "common issues". That does not mean every single MP will experience one or any of these issues, but there appears to still be a sizeable chance that yours will.
Now, lest you think me a "hater", let me add that I really like shooting my MP40 -- I just don't trust it enough (yet) to regularly carry it as a self-defense weapon. I'm sure others will say they feel exactly the opposite. For me, after getting a new frame from S&W on mine, I still have this nagging dread that the next magazine I put in it is going to be the one that starts the mag drop problem on this one. Trust is easily lost and hard to regain.
The reason I post this is because it seems like, lately, this wonderful forum (that is my favorite, by the way) has started to develop this attitude of "Aw, quit your bitchin'". We have to remember that the new MP owners posting problems are looking for help from the M&P community here. So when someone says "I am experiencing this issue", it is not all that helpful to them for us to respond with "Yeah, well, mine has been perfect through X,000 rounds".
This will probably upset someone, so, flame away I guess.
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snscott said:
My full size 9 has been 100% right out the box. Quit your bitchin'
2
True, people with problems are obviously more likely to post about those issues, and besides, who would want to visit a forum with just a bunch of "my gun shot great again today" posts?PPCmaster said:
The important point, and I think it is a significant point, is that we are seeing a pattern of a tiny handful of common problems. It is great that there are only a few recurring issues. Those issues just happen to be very common, which means S&W needs to be diligently looking hard into resolving those few issues.
If they do that, you know what they will have? Even more so than the XD, with a MP that finally has a strong reliability record -- S&W will have a true "Glock Killer". An American-made, super-ergonomic, sexy-looking, highly-reliable pistol.
I absolutely want them to succeed here.
DHart said:
+1 on that Hartster. We ARE very fortunate to have this forum. It provides excellent, fair and balanced information in a very courteous and comprehensive manner. Mike, you could do a lot worse. The assistance some members have rendered in helping to identify and solve repeated problems for the benefit of all, has been IMHO nothing short of outstanding. And I for one appreciate it very much.
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