MP-Pistol Forum banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
OK, this one was closer to home. I'm a little more able to accept that this actually was an accident. The boy was only 14, and inexperienced with firearms. But even being only 14 I have to wonder what he was thinking? Why did he pick up the firearm, ok he was curious. Why did he point it at his best friend? Why did he pull the trigger? Oh wait I'm sorry, the article doesn't say that, it says "They say the boy was showing Holmes the gun when it fired." "When it fired"? Why does everyone have to sugar coat the facts, and try to be politically correct? The 14 year old pulled the damn trigger! Do you see where I'm coming from? Now every ant-gun nut will continue to tell you "Guns kill people!" :roll:





Wednesday, December 19, 2007

Boy gets 1-day sentence for friend's accidental killing

Associated Press

HOWELL -- A 14-year-old Livingston County boy has received a one-day juvenile sentence for accidentally shooting his best friend to death.



Probate Judge Carol Hackett Garagiola in Howell also ordered the teen to get counseling and perform community service for the first year of his two-year probation. The Livingston County Daily Press & Argus and The Ann Arbor News didn't release his name.



The Iosco Township youth earlier pleaded guilty to careless discharge of a firearm causing death.



Police say the boy and 14-year-old Timothy Holmes were inside the boy's house April 14 when he retrieved his father's Colt .45 semiautomatic pistol. They say the boy was showing Holmes the gun when it fired.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,990 Posts
14 year old anything from the forbidden tree looks delicious i.e. smoking, drinking, guns and drugs. He wanted to be cool and didnt know how to operate. Plain and simple :!: :!:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
I say the father is to blame.



He keeps a loaded, accessible gun in the house, with a 14 year old, and he has never shown the boy proper weapons handling?



That's a recipe for disaster.



If you have a gun in a house with a teenager, teach them the 4 fundamental rules. Show them how to clear it. Take them to the range and have them shoot the damn thing till their hand aches. You will simultaneously teach them how to approach and handle any gun more safely if they come across one (yours or another) in the future, and take away the "forbidden fruit" part of the guns allure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
BateleurRGB said:
I say the father is to blame.



He keeps a loaded, accessible gun in the house, with a 14 year old, and he has never shown the boy proper weapons handling?



That's a recipe for disaster.



If you have a gun in a house with a teenager, teach them the 4 fundamental rules. Show them how to clear it. Take them to the range and have them shoot the damn thing till their hand aches. You will simultaneously teach them how to approach and handle any gun more safely if they come across one (yours or another) in the future, and take away the "forbidden fruit" part of the guns allure.




Totally agree! I was surprised no mention was made of that in the article.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Here, Here one and all. RGB is correct that the father is ultimately responsible for the act of his son. And I concur that the forbidden fruit has a lot of allure. This is one of many reasons I take my two kids (16&14, young man and daughter)respectively to the range as time permits in our crazy lives. It is my belief this has taught them so much not only in regards to the weapons but has help them improve their self confidence through knowledge.
 

·
Site Staff
Joined
·
9,615 Posts
They ought to teach that Eddy Eagle NRA program in every school in the country, kids will be kids, they are curious, and the forbidden aspect makes it attractive.



The Eddy Eagle program didn't exist when I was a kid, but my dad had the essential advice, he told me that if I was ever at a friends house, and a gun was brought out, to leave...IMMEDIATELY! Simple advice, if that kid (victim) had only known it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,101 Posts
I agree with the parents being at fault, not only for leaving a weapon out for a kid to have access, but not properly training a kid that lives in a house with a fire arm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
297 Posts
Definitely the parents fault there. If you're going to have guns you must educate anyone and everyone that lives in the house with them, especially teenage kids. Curiosity is everything to them at those ages. If they have the chance they will try just about anything at those ages just because they think it might be cool and everyone else is doing it. The best way to get rid of all that curiosity is to let them try it, whether its going to the range to learn and understand guns or let them take a hit off a cigarette and see that it taste like crap, etc. If they learn early, and learn that it does nothing to make you cool: about guns, cigarettes, drugs; they might use better judgement when they have peers pushing something like that at them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
ok, I am not going to say it isn't the parents fault, BUT, how do any of you actually know for sure what happened? His parents might have taught him very well about guns and all other things to stay away from, that doesn't mean he wasn't just being stupid. He murdered, bottom line... My father was a LEO and I shot since I was about 7 years old, i was taught very well how to use a firearm and how to handle one, the only thing that stopped me from doing something stupid though was me, not my parents. I think its about time that people need to be held responsible for their own actions. Stupid is is stupid does...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
That doesn't change the fact that if the handgun had been properly secured in a safe, or at the very least, had a trigger lock on it, this could have been prevented. I'm curious as to why the father hasn't been charged for this oversight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,268 Posts
These are the kind of stories that lead to legislation that causes guns to inaccessible in the time of need, i.e. Hillary's lock it up with the ammo separate idea. I have three sons, 6, 4 and 8 months. The two older boys know all about my gun in that they NEVER touch it without daddy around. They have had experience shooting air rifles, which still teaches the saftey rules, but they might be a bit small for my 9mm yet. When they get a little older, say 8-10, I will be taking them out, teaching them the rules and reinforcing SAFETY!!!!



I would agree aso that the father/parent is partially responsible for not teachign how to handle the weapon but not for leaving it around.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
That would be owner of the guns fault for having it loaded and somewhere the kid could get to it and not teaching the kid about guns.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
I just did a poll on this at work and while I still want everyone here to know that I dont think the parents are completely innocent of this but, everyone is saying here that the parents are guilty of not teaching the kid about guns.... WHERE IN THE ARTICLE DOES IT SAY THEY DIDN'T... He is fourteen not six, How many times has he seen a movie where when you aim a gun at someone and shoot, they are going to die or get injured. All the guys I asked at work said "He is old enough to know better" I agree, I think he is just plain stupid or he wanted to shoot that kid. There was no mistake when he pointed and squeezed the trigger...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
007mich said:
I just did a poll on this at work and while I still want everyone here to know that I dont think the parents are completely innocent of this but, everyone is saying here that the parents are guilty of not teaching the kid about guns.... WHERE IN THE ARTICLE DOES IT SAY THEY DIDN'T...


The article does not explicitly state that they did or didn't. However, based on the following statement:



007mich said:
Police say the boy and 14-year-old Timothy Holmes were inside the boy's house April 14 when he retrieved his father's Colt .45 semiautomatic pistol. They say the boy was showing Holmes the gun when it fired


I infer that the shooter did not properly clear the weapon before showing to his friend. I can think of three reasons for this:



1. He knew how to clear the pistol, but deliberately did not do so because he intended to shoot Holmes. However, the police and the judge, presumably following an investigation, seem to agree this is not the case, or the boy would have been charged with murder, which he was not.



2. He had been shown how to clear the pistol, but forgot to do so, or how to. He also ignored basic rules of safety when pointing the pistol at his friend with his finger on the trigger. If we accept this postulate, the shortcomings can be the result of insufficient training, or an exceptionally challenged (i.e. dumb) student. In either case, the fault rests with the teacher: in the former case, for not drilling the rules sufficiently, and in the latter case for leaving an unsecured weapon accessible to a person who should be kept away from it.



3. He had never been shown how to clear or safely handle the pistol. Again, the fault rests largely with the boy's father, who in this case made no effort whatsoever.



There are infinite variations of what might have happened, but I think they can all be condensed into one of the above categories. Only in the first (and least likely) instance, is the boy wholly at fault. In the other two instances, I say the father is more to blame for A) Not providing the proper training and/or B) not securing the weapon properly.



For the above reasons, I maintain my opinion that it is the father's fault.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top